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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 28, 2023 14:21:43 GMT
One sided views - Check. No evidence - Check. Fixed opinions - Check.
Yep, fanatic.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 28, 2023 14:22:06 GMT
So the new belief is that the 7/10 attacks did not happen, or if they did it was not Hamas despite Hamas holding dozens of hostages taken at the same time and that Israel faked most of it. It seems the Hamas body cams were not real that foreign observers saw that detailed some of the horrific events. I have no doubt that 'truth' will be hard to filter out from all the propaganda noise. You know of course what you are saying if Israel/Jews lied about this and committed atrocities on their own people then what do we make of the holocaust as the 'truth' there is far more distant in time, far more controlled with who gets to see the evidence and has many unanswered questions. You seem to be toeing the PA line. No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed. If we do not know the truth there is no point in any of us becoming exercised over what we are told is happening by a host of interested parties. Perhaps we should leave them to it, not worry about it and get on with our own lives here and ignore demonstrations for and against whatever may or may not be happening. Taking anyone at their word seems no way to proceed. Did Israel admit to killing many of their own and if they did can we believe them?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 15:21:29 GMT
One sided views - Check. No evidence - Check. Fixed opinions - Check. Yep, fanatic. Why? I agreed that Israel had a right to defend itself but not the right to commit genocide, as you do. Israel has dropped 29,000 bombs on Gaza if every bomb kills one person that's 29,000 dead and we know some of the bombs have killed hundreds. What's fixed about calling out genocide. It is a real worry that some people still believe Israel is defending itself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 15:24:40 GMT
No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed. If we do not know the truth there is no point in any of us becoming exercised over what we are told is happening by a host of interested parties. Perhaps we should leave them to it, not worry about it and get on with our own lives here and ignore demonstrations for and against whatever may or may not be happening. Taking anyone at their word seems no way to proceed. Did Israel admit to killing many of their own and if they did can we believe them? But the evidence says different. It is known that Israel have dropped hundred of 2000lb bombs on Gaza which have not been used since the Vietnam war and have an horrendous capacity to kill. That is not taking anyone at their word it is just common sense. As I said we do not know the truth of the numbers killed but I believe the numbers are far greater than those told. Israel are committing war crimes and far too many people are supporting them.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 28, 2023 15:33:19 GMT
One sided views - Check. No evidence - Check. Fixed opinions - Check. Yep, fanatic. Why? I agreed that Israel had a right to defend itself but not the right to commit genocide, as you do. Israel has dropped 29,000 bombs on Gaza if every bomb kills one person that's 29,000 dead and we know some of the bombs have killed hundreds. What's fixed about calling out genocide. It is a real worry that some people still believe Israel is defending itself. You've never adduced any evidence that Israel is committing genocide. You lied about that. I never said that any country has the right to commit genocide. So you you lied about that too. You state that "We don't know the truth" and then proceeded to make baseless allegations nonetheless. In other words, you lied. You have, by your own admission, based your position on unknowns - the very definition of prejudice. You are a fanatic: You can't change your mind and you can't change the subject.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 28, 2023 15:46:41 GMT
If we do not know the truth there is no point in any of us becoming exercised over what we are told is happening by a host of interested parties. Perhaps we should leave them to it, not worry about it and get on with our own lives here and ignore demonstrations for and against whatever may or may not be happening. Taking anyone at their word seems no way to proceed. Did Israel admit to killing many of their own and if they did can we believe them? But the evidence says different. It is known that Israel have dropped hundred of 2000lb bombs on Gaza which have not been used since the Vietnam war and have an horrendous capacity to kill. That is not taking anyone at their word it is just common sense. As I said we do not know the truth of the numbers killed but I believe the numbers are far greater than those told. Israel are committing war crimes and far too many people are supporting them. Ah now you are approving of evidence. Is evidence that which you know, that which you have been told, that which you have seen reported or that which you believe to be true? War crimes is a pretty hefty phrase and does require 'evidence' as it requires particular action and intent. What most of us have to contend with is the fixated hatred of Israel apparent from some out of all proportion to the 'crimes ' that it has committed and against which almost any action is seen as Israel's fault for bringing it upon itself. It seems that just the fact it exists is crime number one and all else flows from that.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 28, 2023 15:48:37 GMT
Well you have taken the claims by Hamas of 20,000 dead at face value - I have not seen you say we should be circumspect about those figures. Are you disputing the figures? How many would you say are dead? "According to US intelligence assessments seen by CNN, in this war, Israel had dropped more than 29,000 bombs on Gaza since the war began and mid-December, with 40-45% of these unguided" In an area about twice the size of Washington DC. The figures published do not include those buried under the rubble which in turn will be numbered in their thousands, they are also the figures of people that have died in hospital. Israel are killing and in some cases targeting journalists to hide the true scale of the deaths in Gaza. I think 20,000 is very probably a huge underestimation of the dead in Gaza and Israel will try it's best to hide it with people like you as complicit in war crimes. Yet you believed Hamas when they said that Israel had bombed and destroyed the Al-Ahli Hospital and killed 500 people - yet when the pictures emerged the 'bomb' hadn't even destroyed all the cars in the car park. Why were you not more circumspect then?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 17:32:12 GMT
Why? I agreed that Israel had a right to defend itself but not the right to commit genocide, as you do. Israel has dropped 29,000 bombs on Gaza if every bomb kills one person that's 29,000 dead and we know some of the bombs have killed hundreds. What's fixed about calling out genocide. It is a real worry that some people still believe Israel is defending itself. You've never adduced any evidence that Israel is committing genocide. You lied about that. I never said that any country has the right to commit genocide. So you you lied about that too. You state that "We don't know the truth" and then proceeded to make baseless allegations nonetheless. In other words, you lied. You have, by your own admission, based your position on unknowns - the very definition of prejudice. You are a fanatic: You can't change your mind and you can't change the subject. Lets see. Bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship. Stripping and parading 'prisoners'. Shooting people carrying white flags. Displacing 1.9 million people. Using white phosphorus on civilians. Using 2000lb bombs. All war crimes. 29,000 bombs kill at least 29,000 people or they are not very good bombs. You are defending genocide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 17:33:37 GMT
But the evidence says different. It is known that Israel have dropped hundred of 2000lb bombs on Gaza which have not been used since the Vietnam war and have an horrendous capacity to kill. That is not taking anyone at their word it is just common sense. As I said we do not know the truth of the numbers killed but I believe the numbers are far greater than those told. Israel are committing war crimes and far too many people are supporting them. Ah now you are approving of evidence. Is evidence that which you know, that which you have been told, that which you have seen reported or that which you believe to be true? War crimes is a pretty hefty phrase and does require 'evidence' as it requires particular action and intent. What most of us have to contend with is the fixated hatred of Israel apparent from some out of all proportion to the 'crimes ' that it has committed and against which almost any action is seen as Israel's fault for bringing it upon itself. It seems that just the fact it exists is crime number one and all else flows from that. Lets see. Bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship. Stripping and parading 'prisoners'. Shooting people carrying white flags. Displacing 1.9 million people. Using white phosphorus on civilians. Using 2000lb bombs. You are supporting genocide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 17:34:44 GMT
Are you disputing the figures? How many would you say are dead? "According to US intelligence assessments seen by CNN, in this war, Israel had dropped more than 29,000 bombs on Gaza since the war began and mid-December, with 40-45% of these unguided" In an area about twice the size of Washington DC. The figures published do not include those buried under the rubble which in turn will be numbered in their thousands, they are also the figures of people that have died in hospital. Israel are killing and in some cases targeting journalists to hide the true scale of the deaths in Gaza. I think 20,000 is very probably a huge underestimation of the dead in Gaza and Israel will try it's best to hide it with people like you as complicit in war crimes. Yet you believed Hamas when they said that Israel had bombed and destroyed the Al-Ahli Hospital and killed 500 people - yet when the pictures emerged the 'bomb' hadn't even destroyed all the cars in the car park. Why were you not more circumspect then? Israel said it was a Hamas rocket and gave no evidence, Israel admitted bombing it.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 28, 2023 19:31:30 GMT
You've never adduced any evidence that Israel is committing genocide. You lied about that. I never said that any country has the right to commit genocide. So you you lied about that too. You state that "We don't know the truth" and then proceeded to make baseless allegations nonetheless. In other words, you lied. You have, by your own admission, based your position on unknowns - the very definition of prejudice. You are a fanatic: You can't change your mind and you can't change the subject. Lets see. Bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship. Stripping and parading 'prisoners'. Shooting people carrying white flags. Displacing 1.9 million people. Using white phosphorus on civilians. Using 2000lb bombs. All war crimes. 29,000 bombs kill at least 29,000 people or they are not very good bombs. You are defending genocide. But previously:
...My point is we do not know the truth...
And yet here you are again presenting your opinion as truth.
You are a pro-Hamas fanatic.
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2023 19:40:51 GMT
One sided views - Check. No evidence - Check. Fixed opinions - Check. Yep, fanatic. Very good lol.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 28, 2023 19:50:09 GMT
Ah now you are approving of evidence. Is evidence that which you know, that which you have been told, that which you have seen reported or that which you believe to be true? War crimes is a pretty hefty phrase and does require 'evidence' as it requires particular action and intent. What most of us have to contend with is the fixated hatred of Israel apparent from some out of all proportion to the 'crimes ' that it has committed and against which almost any action is seen as Israel's fault for bringing it upon itself. It seems that just the fact it exists is crime number one and all else flows from that. Lets see. Bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship. Stripping and parading 'prisoners'. Shooting people carrying white flags. Displacing 1.9 million people. Using white phosphorus on civilians. Using 2000lb bombs. You are supporting genocide. The point of course is how do you know. Whose reporting are you relying on and which reporting do you discard as false and which do you accept as Kosher, so to speak. We know something is happening.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 28, 2023 20:00:55 GMT
If we do not know the truth there is no point in any of us becoming exercised over what we are told is happening by a host of interested parties. Perhaps we should leave them to it, not worry about it and get on with our own lives here and ignore demonstrations for and against whatever may or may not be happening. Taking anyone at their word seems no way to proceed. Did Israel admit to killing many of their own and if they did can we believe them? But the evidence says different. It is known that Israel have dropped hundred of 2000lb bombs on Gaza which have not been used since the Vietnam war and have an horrendous capacity to kill. That is not taking anyone at their word it is just common sense. As I said we do not know the truth of the numbers killed but I believe the numbers are far greater than those told. Israel are committing war crimes and far too many people are supporting them. It is known? You now seem to be accepting information from US sources that you would normally poo pooh as biased. Why would you believe numbers are far greater than told which sources inform you of that? People are not supporting war crimes as most state quite clearly Israel have a right to defend themselves. What we do know though is that Palestinian propaganda over decades is to refer to Israel as a terrorist state and to call acts against them genocide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 4:48:19 GMT
Lets see. Bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship. Stripping and parading 'prisoners'. Shooting people carrying white flags. Displacing 1.9 million people. Using white phosphorus on civilians. Using 2000lb bombs. All war crimes. 29,000 bombs kill at least 29,000 people or they are not very good bombs. You are defending genocide. But previously:
...My point is we do not know the truth...
And yet here you are again presenting your opinion as truth.
You are a pro-Hamas fanatic.
We do not know the truth about what happened on Oct 7th. We do know the truth about, Israel dropping hundreds of 2000lb bombs. Israel killing white flag bearers. Israel displacing 1.9 million Palestinians. Israel bombing schools. hospitals and places of worship. Israel killing over 100 Journalists. Israel using phosphorus against civilians. You are either an idiot or a troll.
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