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Post by sandypine on Dec 27, 2023 15:10:09 GMT
Yes we do. Well, according to pro-Hamas propagandists. Maybe in Wonky-World but not in the real one. Show dome evidence that they specifically killed by Hamas. We have seen incinerated bodies but Hamas had a few rocket launchers and rifles. We have heard of 40 babies beheaded but no proof. We have been told they put babies in ovens but there is no evidence for any of it. We do know an Israeli attack helicopter killed many Israelis and Israeli tanks fired into Israeli houses. Hamas did kill civilians and it was an horrific attack but none of us actually know the truth. Do you doubt that Israel, before the 7th, controlled the water, supplies and power that went into Gaza? So the new belief is that the 7/10 attacks did not happen, or if they did it was not Hamas despite Hamas holding dozens of hostages taken at the same time and that Israel faked most of it. It seems the Hamas body cams were not real that foreign observers saw that detailed some of the horrific events. I have no doubt that 'truth' will be hard to filter out from all the propaganda noise. You know of course what you are saying if Israel/Jews lied about this and committed atrocities on their own people then what do we make of the holocaust as the 'truth' there is far more distant in time, far more controlled with who gets to see the evidence and has many unanswered questions. You seem to be toeing the PA line.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 15:58:20 GMT
Show dome evidence that they specifically killed by Hamas. We have seen incinerated bodies but Hamas had a few rocket launchers and rifles. We have heard of 40 babies beheaded but no proof. We have been told they put babies in ovens but there is no evidence for any of it. We do know an Israeli attack helicopter killed many Israelis and Israeli tanks fired into Israeli houses. Hamas did kill civilians and it was an horrific attack but none of us actually know the truth. Do you doubt that Israel, before the 7th, controlled the water, supplies and power that went into Gaza? So the new belief is that the 7/10 attacks did not happen, or if they did it was not Hamas despite Hamas holding dozens of hostages taken at the same time and that Israel faked most of it. It seems the Hamas body cams were not real that foreign observers saw that detailed some of the horrific events. I have no doubt that 'truth' will be hard to filter out from all the propaganda noise. You know of course what you are saying if Israel/Jews lied about this and committed atrocities on their own people then what do we make of the holocaust as the 'truth' there is far more distant in time, far more controlled with who gets to see the evidence and has many unanswered questions. You seem to be toeing the PA line. Everytime this country is attacked by the Jihadis these far-left liars would use it against the good people and the country, by smearing them as racists and demanding more draconian laws which are used to favour the Jihadis. The terrorists and the Left work together, just as the Left supported the IRA. It's why this one in particular will support open-borders by every means possible. Before the Jihadis were in Europe the Left would rely on terrorism throughout the continent. Why our system supports and encourages these odious far-lefties is anyone's guess. Perhaps the infiltration of our institutions really is that bad.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 27, 2023 18:25:45 GMT
Why did they go north into Israel why not south into Egypt and also one can break out from a blockade but not kill lots of innocent people in the process. The festival goers were not armed, were not containing Gazans and were listening to music. Israel controls what goes out of Gaza into Egypt. No they don't - Israel want the people of Gaza to move to Egypt, its the Egyptians who are not keen so keep their border closed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 19:15:57 GMT
I would have thought that intent had a lot to do with it. HAMAS intended to, and did, kill a lot of Israeli citizens and take them hostage. Hamas intend to hide amongst innocent civilians and use them as protection, Israel intend to clear HAMAS out of Gaza and to that end will accept that civilians will be killed. I do not think Israel intend to kill innocent civilians but do not seem to worry too much if that happens as they try to disable HAMAS and stop the ongoing attacks by rockets from Gaza. It is a way for HAMAS to try and claim the moral high ground by pointing to the Palestinian dead but they are doing exactly what the Nazis did in WW2 with civilians from conquered lands the difference is HAMAS are using their own civilians. It is akin to the UK in WW2 building radar stations and RAF headquarters deliberately under schools and hospitals in central London in early 1940. We don't know Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, even the Israeli government has said so. You should remember that the 'Palestinians' have been prisoners of the Israeli government for decades. I have no doubt that Hamas are a terrorist organisation but Israel are far worse. More nonsense. You may not know that Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, however most of the world is better informed than you. So you'd rather live under a Hamas government than an Israeli one? You must be crazy and a bit more.
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Post by morayloon on Dec 28, 2023 0:15:40 GMT
Israel controls what goes out of Gaza into Egypt. No they don't - Israel want the people of Gaza to move to Egypt, its the Egyptians who are not keen so keep their border closed. Why should the Palestinians move anywhere? They want to stay in Gaza. Your support for the genocide and carnage perpetrated by the Israeli forces, under the orders of Netanyahu, is bad enough, but now you are backing the Zionist view that Gaza is Israeli territory and the Palestinians must go. Ethnic cleansing is the apt description for what they are doing. Not content with telling people in the North of the strip to move to the safety of Khan Yunis, they then began bombing that area. Then they were told to move south to a "place of safety" and then the safe area was bombed. Now they WANT the Palestinians out of Gaza. How can you continue to support the heinous crimes carried out by the Israelis.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 28, 2023 8:14:22 GMT
No they don't - Israel want the people of Gaza to move to Egypt, its the Egyptians who are not keen so keep their border closed. Why should the Palestinians move anywhere? They want to stay in Gaza. Your support for the genocide and carnage perpetrated by the Israeli forces, under the orders of Netanyahu, is bad enough, but now you are backing the Zionist view that Gaza is Israeli territory and the Palestinians must go. Ethnic cleansing is the apt description for what they are doing. Not content with telling people in the North of the strip to move to the safety of Khan Yunis, they then began bombing that area. Then they were told to move south to a "place of safety" and then the safe area was bombed. Now they WANT the Palestinians out of Gaza. How can you continue to support the heinous crimes carried out by the Israelis. I'm not saying they should move anywhere - simply pointing out Red Rums error in assuming that the Israelis want to keep them in Gaza.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 8:33:19 GMT
No and that's not what I said but you do like your lies. Have you not heard of the "Hannibal Directive"? You just keep believing the lies that people want you to believe, no wonder you lie so easily. Do you even read what you post, Wonky or do you simply cut & paste propaganda? I'm not lying - I'm simply pointing out the obvious implication of what you're saying. What I said "We don't know Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, even the Israeli government has said so. You should remember that the 'Palestinians' have been prisoners of the Israeli government for decades. I have no doubt that Hamas are a terrorist organisation but Israel are far worse." What you imply "October 7th did not happen". It is not a good policy to ignore what people say and make up your own meaning and therefore lie.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 8:37:03 GMT
Show dome evidence that they specifically killed by Hamas. We have seen incinerated bodies but Hamas had a few rocket launchers and rifles. We have heard of 40 babies beheaded but no proof. We have been told they put babies in ovens but there is no evidence for any of it. We do know an Israeli attack helicopter killed many Israelis and Israeli tanks fired into Israeli houses. Hamas did kill civilians and it was an horrific attack but none of us actually know the truth. Do you doubt that Israel, before the 7th, controlled the water, supplies and power that went into Gaza? So the new belief is that the 7/10 attacks did not happen, or if they did it was not Hamas despite Hamas holding dozens of hostages taken at the same time and that Israel faked most of it. It seems the Hamas body cams were not real that foreign observers saw that detailed some of the horrific events. I have no doubt that 'truth' will be hard to filter out from all the propaganda noise. You know of course what you are saying if Israel/Jews lied about this and committed atrocities on their own people then what do we make of the holocaust as the 'truth' there is far more distant in time, far more controlled with who gets to see the evidence and has many unanswered questions. You seem to be toeing the PA line. No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 8:37:37 GMT
We don't know Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, even the Israeli government has said so. You should remember that the 'Palestinians' have been prisoners of the Israeli government for decades. I have no doubt that Hamas are a terrorist organisation but Israel are far worse. More nonsense. You may not know that Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, however most of the world is better informed than you. So you'd rather live under a Hamas government than an Israeli one? You must be crazy and a bit more. No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 28, 2023 8:43:37 GMT
More nonsense. You may not know that Hamas killed a lot of Israeli citizens, however most of the world is better informed than you. So you'd rather live under a Hamas government than an Israeli one? You must be crazy and a bit more. No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed.
Yet you continually take Hamas at their word and repeat their claims of numbers killed without question.. ..whats the difference?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 9:15:00 GMT
No, I have said that what Hamas did was horrendous and they killed and took Israeli citizens hostage, there is no doubt about that. Israel has said there were 1400 killed, then changed it to 1200, then 1000 and now they have admitted that given the Hannibal directive they killed a lot of the Israeli citizens. My point is we do not know the truth and taking the Israelis at their word is not a reliable way to proceed.
Yet you continually take Hamas at their word and repeat their claims of numbers killed without question.. ..whats the difference? I have not taken Hamas at their word, do you not know what "we don't know what the truth is" either and I have never repeated the numbers killed by Hamas only the 'changing' figure of the Israelis. It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with people that lie or do not understand the English language.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 28, 2023 11:47:46 GMT
Yet you continually take Hamas at their word and repeat their claims of numbers killed without question.. ..whats the difference? I have not taken Hamas at their word, do you not know what "we don't know what the truth is" either and I have never repeated the numbers killed by Hamas only the 'changing' figure of the Israelis. It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with people that lie or do not understand the English language. Well you have taken the claims by Hamas of 20,000 dead at face value - I have not seen you say we should be circumspect about those figures.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 13:27:17 GMT
I have not taken Hamas at their word, do you not know what "we don't know what the truth is" either and I have never repeated the numbers killed by Hamas only the 'changing' figure of the Israelis. It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with people that lie or do not understand the English language. Well you have taken the claims by Hamas of 20,000 dead at face value - I have not seen you say we should be circumspect about those figures. Are you disputing the figures? How many would you say are dead? "According to US intelligence assessments seen by CNN, in this war, Israel had dropped more than 29,000 bombs on Gaza since the war began and mid-December, with 40-45% of these unguided" In an area about twice the size of Washington DC. The figures published do not include those buried under the rubble which in turn will be numbered in their thousands, they are also the figures of people that have died in hospital. Israel are killing and in some cases targeting journalists to hide the true scale of the deaths in Gaza. I think 20,000 is very probably a huge underestimation of the dead in Gaza and Israel will try it's best to hide it with people like you as complicit in war crimes.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 28, 2023 14:16:46 GMT
You're a fanatic, Wonky.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 14:19:28 GMT
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