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Post by piglet on Dec 2, 2023 15:33:11 GMT
I think im qualified to comment on englishness, my mother was Italian and my father Belorussian, im a first generation immigrant. My dna stretches from Iceland to the holy land in Israel, and from Spain to the the tip of the spit of land in northern Russia, i have no Celtic or Norman dna at all, there are oddities in there but who has the time.
I grew up in Cambridge in a distinct sub culture of Italians and eastern europeans, there were huge communities of such in the 50s and 60s in Cambridge, contact with the english was sparse, even my schools had much of the above. This is how i saw the english, they were kind, rich,or so it seemed, empathic, caring, patient, sophisticated, intelligent, superior, and had manners. I felt out of my depth with these people, there was no comparison with the people in my home or beyond.
I was used to criticism, violence, emotional violence, punishment, and rage, my fellow kids were the same. I remember visting tecla down Sturton street, and my mother discussed the violence her polish husband was inflicting on her. My mother got a bloody nose once, ask Stan and his father, also belrussian, mad as a fking hatter.
The english are refined, educated, in control of themselves like the Japanese, mannered and kind, and i thank god im here. My regular visits to Italy were much the same as above.
My cousins Marino and Angelo murdered their father, they burnt a factory down.
And this is where were at, englishness is all but dead, having let all sorts into this country, and their different cultures and what they think is normal but isnt here. Deliberate sabotage, there is no salvaging british culture, and as vanni said, go against the woke herd and youve had it.
Look the other way to America and its the same, the British are different.
BETTER.
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Post by Vanna on Dec 2, 2023 15:59:16 GMT
Gods bless Piglet for having sense, experience and a broad mind. Quite a lot of folk who grow up in British culture become different from the ethnic culture of their genes. There is nothing wrong with this and of course they are part of whatever culture or nation they feel comfortable in. I don't think Dan is trying to go all Sieg Heil by mentioning the fact that the English are vanishing on account of the English having neglected to apply the same compassion and justice to themselves that they apply across the globe to almost everyone else.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 2, 2023 16:03:42 GMT
The identity issue is a tricky one. As happyhornet said he feels English and most people accept him as English, ... It only seems to be tricky because many well-meaning people bend over backwards in their efforts to be friendly and accommodating to supplicants who desire to share our identity when they already have one of their own.
I recall an extended chinwag on this forum (or it may have been its predecessor) about David Lammy's claim to be English based on his belief that there was no such thing as a single English identity but rather there are many, one of which he felt entitled to claim in spite of his African-Caribbean heritage.
He was widely supported in this bizarre contention by many of the great and good as well as all the organs of the legacy media that chose to report on it.
This form of ritual self-abasement appears to be a peculiarly English affliction. I don't know of any other western European society where it would be tolerated.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 2, 2023 19:04:46 GMT
View AttachmentHere is a picture of pure English culture, which many English people would mock or poke fun at, because Morris Dancing has long been the target of humourists and comedians. Yet these ancient English dances are more English than "Land Of Hope And Glory" or "Rule Brittania", and their origins are part of English history. CULTURE never stands still, it evolves, and culture is always changing, sometimes very slowly, sometimes quickly, and our culture does take on board aspects or bits from other cultures, and in such cases they then become part of our culture. Fish and Chips has its origins overseas, the fried fish from Jewish culture, the humble potato is South American, but the whole world sees Fish & Chips as British, or English. Christianity - an imported religion from the Middle East, a kind of off-shoot from Judaism, with various Pagan beliefs been the dominant belief previous to Christianity. Wave after wave of immigrants have always come to these shores, there are no British people without European or foreign DNA, not even in Wales. WHAT I DO UNDERSTAND is that many people do not like the idea of rapid change which can come from large scale immigration, or mass immigration from people with very different cultures, particularly if such people all settle in specific areas, thereby suddenly swamping an area. However, generally speaking, I cannot now imagine life without all the benefits that immigrants have brought to our culture and added to it. Whether it be the Italians with their Coffee Bars, Spaghetti and family ice cream businesses, or music influences from the Caibbean, or the curry houses which adorn our high streets. I move the motion that: English Culture is Tea, Coffee, Christianity, Fish & Chips, Northern Soul Music, Ginger Beer and CHristmas Cake - None of which have English origins. Many Scots take the mickey out of Scottish Country dance, the Highland fling, kilts and four pullovers singing the Wild Rover, that does not make either parties less Scottish. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 2, 2023 20:33:00 GMT
 First Minister Humza Yousaf and his wife Nadia El-Nakla at the Coronation in London. Mr Yousaf wore a Slanj kilt in the Spirit of Glasgow tartan with an Asian fusion-style jacket and waistcoat designed by Glasgow-based Anjali Modha. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 20:49:23 GMT
First Minister Humza Yousaf and his wife Nadia El-Nakla at the Coronation in London. Mr Yousaf wore a Slanj kilt in the Spirit of Glasgow tartan with an Asian fusion-style jacket and waistcoat designed by Glasgow-based Anjali Modha. Is his kilt not a bit on the short side? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 2, 2023 21:09:26 GMT
Perhaps the most telling remark on the futility of ethnic appropriation so far in this thread.
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 21:24:35 GMT
Perhaps the most telling remark on the futility of ethnic appropriation so far in this thread. No, actually, I just happened to notice that he is wearing his kilt above the knee. The regulation length is at the middle of the knee. How is his wearing the kilt ethnic appropriation, given that the man was born and raised in Scotland and clearly shares Scottish attributes? |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 2, 2023 21:53:52 GMT
Perhaps the most telling remark on the futility of ethnic appropriation so far in this thread. No, actually, I just happened to notice that he is wearing his kilt above the knee. The regulation length is at the middle of the knee. How is his wearing the kilt ethnic appropriation, given that the man was born and raised in Scotland and clearly shares Scottish attributes? I thought the main positive aspect of bringing in many different cultures was supposed to be the enrichment of our societies, which cannot occur if it widely deprecated by some coming in that one cannot take on the trappings of another culture because it dilutes that culture, yet seem to have no problems whatsoever with some effectively playing fast and loose with history and culture but there you go.I would say that it seems to be that anyone can interact, take on, partake in, modify or impersonate any home culture but if a home culture tries to do the same it becomes cultural appropriation and basically just wrong. Something seems askew here. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 22:23:43 GMT
No, actually, I just happened to notice that he is wearing his kilt above the knee. The regulation length is at the middle of the knee. How is his wearing the kilt ethnic appropriation, given that the man was born and raised in Scotland and clearly shares Scottish attributes? I thought the main positive aspect of bringing in many different cultures was supposed to be the enrichment of our societies, which cannot occur if it widely deprecated by some coming in that one cannot take on the trappings of another culture because it dilutes that culture, yet seem to have no problems whatsoever with some effectively playing fast and loose with history and culture but there you go.I would say that it seems to be that anyone can interact, take on, partake in, modify or impersonate any home culture but if a home culture tries to do the same it becomes cultural appropriation and basically just wrong. Something seems askew here. I can't think of any instances of when a home culture is accused of cultural appropriation. In all my interactions with other cultures, I've always found that any nod to their culture is well received as a compliment. IMO every culture has something of interest that can be appreciated by outsiders. I never feel that my culture is threatened by outsiders who want to emulate or admire it. |
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Post by buccaneer on Dec 2, 2023 22:36:55 GMT
I thought the main positive aspect of bringing in many different cultures was supposed to be the enrichment of our societies, which cannot occur if it widely deprecated by some coming in that one cannot take on the trappings of another culture because it dilutes that culture, yet seem to have no problems whatsoever with some effectively playing fast and loose with history and culture but there you go.I would say that it seems to be that anyone can interact, take on, partake in, modify or impersonate any home culture but if a home culture tries to do the same it becomes cultural appropriation and basically just wrong. Something seems askew here. I can't think of any instances of when a home culture is accused of cultural appropriation. In all my interactions with other cultures, I've always found that any nod to their culture is well received as a compliment. IMO every culture has something of interest that can be appreciated by outsiders. I never feel that my culture is threatened by outsiders who want to emulate or admire it. It goes on all the time. www.standard.co.uk/news/world/comme-des-garcons-cornrow-wigs-cultural-appropriation-a4338421.html |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 22:47:57 GMT
I can't think of any instances of when a home culture is accused of cultural appropriation. In all my interactions with other cultures, I've always found that any nod to their culture is well received as a compliment. IMO every culture has something of interest that can be appreciated by outsiders. I never feel that my culture is threatened by outsiders who want to emulate or admire it. It goes on all the time. www.standard.co.uk/news/world/comme-des-garcons-cornrow-wigs-cultural-appropriation-a4338421.htmlI'm not saying it doesn't. I just haven't encountered it myself. I think it's kind of silly to complain when someone copies something they like about your culture. I think it's usually intended as a compliment and should be received that way. |
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Post by dodgydave on Dec 3, 2023 2:27:01 GMT
Perhaps those who claim to be English, should, if they haven't already, have their DNA checked. I claim to be English (4th generation) but most of my DNA is Scottish followed by Scandinavian and a touch of Irish. Edit: Cartertonian has just reminded me about what I feel, and I have felt for a long time to be European. You do know that those tests are complete bollocks right? All your DNA test proved is that a fool and their money are easily parted lol. Identity is complex and is not fixed. You will be a different person with different people. We act and feel different when we are alone, with strangers, with partners, with our children, with our parents, with friends, with work colleague etc. If I'm walking in the Swiss Alps and a Italian asks me for directions its because at that moment we are both identifying as hikers and we have a common bond. Now imagine three hours earlier, I was in a supermarket getting some supplies and the same fellow wanted a bottle of water... he would ignore me and find a shop worker... because there would be no common identity and therefore no bond between us. To say you feel "European" over English is nonsense. You live in England, you speak English, you write in English, you read in English, you know the geography, history and politics of England. There a gazillion thinks that happen to you to imprint that Englishness onto you whether you like it not. Rent a villa in France and then do a weekly shop and see how uncomfortable it is when you cannot get the food / drink / brands that you are used to. You can dislike the country you live in, but you cannot deny that the culture and institutions of that country have shaped you and form a massive part of your identity. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 3, 2023 5:49:01 GMT
There was a very well-publicised instance of 'home culture' cultural appropriation recently at Cambridge University where a college catering facility was accused of the offence in offering dishes such as 'Jamaican Stew' and 'Tunisian Rice'. Students who were not necessarily either Jamaican or Tunisian were very vocal in denouncing these 'microaggressions'.
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Post by Vanna on Dec 3, 2023 6:32:21 GMT
I was born in Africa, have lived in Africa all my life and Africa and African culture has not rubbed off on me nor has it shaped me at all. I appreciate that it has done so to Africans. We are very different. We don't hate one another and we recognise various cultures that are often very apparent everywhere. It has always been this way. We are all South Africans and when it comes to SA playing in World Cup rugby we all get together and support the team, the nation. That is what nationalism really is. You belong to a nation. But inside that you also belong in a different way to other groups. What is the huge problem with this?
Uncontrolled immigration is the biggest problem, possibly, because it eventually causes displacement, which can wholly or partially alter a whole ethnic nation, or cause a majority to form that basically minimizes, in expression and number, the natives. Bearing in mind that the immigrant population has a huge ethnic nation back home to belong to, whereas the displaced group will have nothing. You really don't need to be a rocket science expert to realise this and acknowledge it. Any Israeli would be able to tell you how perilous this can be for a group. And because no one cares about this, there are trouble spots all over the world. It's mostly the west interfering. Because the west, dominated by America, claims supremacy over all cultures and people. It is a globalised monster and this explains why countries like Russia and China are designated as satanic opposites. We are expected to fight them, hate them, ridicule them and uphold a trashy modern culture that has next to nothing to do with any of our own cultures.
If the English want to survive they need to stop giving the nod to woke.
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