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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 26, 2023 16:48:50 GMT
I used to get the train through Brixton where a statue was built on the train platform of a Black woman in I think Bronze, then we have in Wales reducing the speed limit to just 20mph on most roads. This adds to the political distrust that Labour are putting council money into pet projects that increase their branding rather than providing decent services. Were the statue of Churchill would you still see it as wasteful. If it were being erected today, i probably would. Unless … maybe if they carved a few quotes from ‘the river war’ on its plinth and erected it next to a Shia mosque. That i WOULD pay to watch. The point i think is most statues of Churchill were erected to mark the occasion of his telling Halifax where to shove his appeasement ideas and steering the country to victory over a madman’s war machine. And mad he definitely was, or at least he had some serious failings in the tactical and logistics departments. Most statues of black people round here are of utter unknowns who frankly need to stay that way. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 26, 2023 18:30:30 GMT
Were the statue of Churchill would you still see it as wasteful. If it were being erected today, i probably would. Unless … maybe if they carved a few quotes from ‘the river war’ on its plinth and erected it next to a Shia mosque. That i WOULD pay to watch. The point i think is most statues of Churchill were erected to mark the occasion of his telling Halifax where to shove his appeasement ideas and steering the country to victory over a madman’s war machine. And mad he definitely was, or at least he had some serious failings in the tactical and logistics departments. Most statues of black people round here are of utter unknowns who frankly need to stay that way. Were the statue just a piece of art would you object. Is it the spending you object to or something else? The question I'm asking is not whether you like coloured people its whether councils should make all things cheap dull utilitarian? No park flowers, no ornate buildings, no art? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 26, 2023 21:43:40 GMT
If it were being erected today, i probably would. Unless … maybe if they carved a few quotes from ‘the river war’ on its plinth and erected it next to a Shia mosque. That i WOULD pay to watch. The point i think is most statues of Churchill were erected to mark the occasion of his telling Halifax where to shove his appeasement ideas and steering the country to victory over a madman’s war machine. And mad he definitely was, or at least he had some serious failings in the tactical and logistics departments. Most statues of black people round here are of utter unknowns who frankly need to stay that way. Were the statue just a piece of art would you object. Is it the spending you object to or something else? The question I'm asking is not whether you like coloured people its whether councils should make all things cheap dull utilitarian? No park flowers, no ornate buildings, no art? Ok, good question. To answer that there’s a bronze of Dame Shirley Bassey somewhere in the middle of Cardiff Bay. As i’m sure you know, it was her home turf. I think THAT has every right to be there just like as Eric Morecambe’s statue in his home town and for that matter Andy Capp’s etc, etc. Same goes for the statue to a chap called Gareth Davies whose sporting achievements on a bit of grass six hundred yards west (dug up and now a men’s toilet block in the new Principality Stadium) are the stuff of legend. Yes, Max Boyce needs to rewrite his Live at Treorchy track to reflect the fact his hero once scored in the Gents Toilets …. Equally, to the side of the gates of the main dock, now boarded over and dedicated to a certain author, snd right in front of the Terra Nova pub dedicated to Robert Falcon Scott’s ill fated expedition to the south pole, there’s a statue of some negro woman and her not quite so negro kid, and some white bloke kitted out as a miner. A bit of poetic licence given the nearest of the mines were twenty four miles north but fair enough the docks were built on coal, the first million pound cheque ever signed, was signed in the Coal Exchange building about 250 yards from those dock gates and while the canal bringing that coal kept Lord Tredegar a multi millionaire richer in real worth than Elon Musk today, and the streets were filled with such women mostly offering succour for a fee to the many, many merchant seamen who frequented the port, such work is very much art, and far more so than some strange crap at the end of Commercial St Newport dedicated to the Chartists and some even wierder shit at the other end erected to honour our supertramp poet…. But the very black racist history rewriting twat in Cardiff Council who is hell bent on destroying all record of a Welsh military man without whose death at Waterloo the French would probably have prevailed, British Naval actions against the arab slave trade would never have taken place because we’d still be blowing lumps out of Napoleon and in all probability the Domino Treaties wouldn’t have come about in the same form, world war 1 and 2 probably wouldn’t have taken place, at least not the way they did and there wouldn't be any black lives to matter in Britain as we’d never have needed to import any, is hell bent on spending to build statues of blacks in place of such men not for what they did but because they're black. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 26, 2023 22:35:06 GMT
Were the statue just a piece of art would you object. Is it the spending you object to or something else? The question I'm asking is not whether you like coloured people its whether councils should make all things cheap dull utilitarian? No park flowers, no ornate buildings, no art? Ok, good question. To answer that there’s a bronze of Dame Shirley Bassey somewhere in the middle of Cardiff Bay. As i’m sure you know, it was her home turf. I think THAT has every right to be there just like as Eric Morecambe’s statue in his home town and for that matter Andy Capp’s etc, etc. Same goes for the statue to a chap called Gareth Davies whose sporting achievements on a bit of grass six hundred yards west (dug up and now a men’s toilet block in the new Principality Stadium) are the stuff of legend. Yes, Max Boyce needs to rewrite his Live at Treorchy track to reflect the fact his hero once scored in the Gents Toilets …. Equally, to the side of the gates of the main dock, now boarded over and dedicated to a certain author, snd right in front of the Terra Nova pub dedicated to Robert Falcon Scott’s ill fated expedition to the south pole, there’s a statue of some negro woman and her not quite so negro kid, and some white bloke kitted out as a miner. A bit of poetic licence given the nearest of the mines were twenty four miles north but fair enough the docks were built on coal, the first million pound cheque ever signed, was signed in the Coal Exchange building about 250 yards from those dock gates and while the canal bringing that coal kept Lord Tredegar a multi millionaire richer in real worth than Elon Musk today, and the streets were filled with such women mostly offering succour for a fee to the many, many merchant seamen who frequented the port, such work is very much art, and far more so than some strange crap at the end of Commercial St Newport dedicated to the Chartists and some even wierder shit at the other end erected to honour our supertramp poet…. But the very black racist history rewriting twat in Cardiff Council who is hell bent on destroying all record of a Welsh military man without whose death at Waterloo the French would probably have prevailed, British Naval actions against the arab slave trade would never have taken place because we’d still be blowing lumps out of Napoleon and in all probability the Domino Treaties wouldn’t have come about in the same form, world war 1 and 2 probably wouldn’t have taken place, at least not the way they did and there wouldn't be any black lives to matter in Britain as we’d never have needed to import any, is hell bent on spending to build statues of blacks in place of such men not for what they did but because they're black. You haven't really answered again John. You list a number of old statues you think are historically worthwhile and then one you despise. The the barometer you give is "Does John approve" What I am asking is whether modern councils should no longer follow the historic idea of creating impressive buildings, parks etc. I'm not asking what they should decorate them with. That you don't like a black woman statue is neither here or there when talking about council waste. Or is it only waste if its something you don't approve of? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 26, 2023 23:07:40 GMT
Ok.
Stick with areas i know then
There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power …
If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole.
The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so
Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ?
Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 27, 2023 0:29:04 GMT
Ok. Stick with areas i know then There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power … If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole. The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ? Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned A little bit of history for you about one of our lovely open spaces in Bristol. Scroll down to how it was in 1831. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Square,_Bristol I've often wondered if I could do one of those jobs as a tourist guide to guide foreigners around these places to explain the past to them. That would be fun. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 27, 2023 10:13:50 GMT
Ok. Stick with areas i know then There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power … If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole. The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ? Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned Thank you. Good answer. so the days are gone when we just build things for the public that are beautiful. The public purse so squeezed that such things are now assigned to history. I disagree that their needs to be such scarce funds, but maybe we can look forward to the return of the philanthropic donation and statue of Amazon and Google to brighten our parks. On taxation, would you return to those low tax days and put up with the Cholera and TB outbreaks, maybe accept that only half your children survive? Seems to me modern man is very much a cake and eat it creature. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 27, 2023 10:23:24 GMT
Ok. Stick with areas i know then There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power … If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole. The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ? Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned A little bit of history for you about one of our lovely open spaces in Bristol. Scroll down to how it was in 1831. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Square,_Bristol I've often wondered if I could do one of those jobs as a tourist guide to guide foreigners around these places to explain the past to them. That would be fun. Why not Baron. You certainly do your research. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 27, 2023 11:38:21 GMT
Ok. Stick with areas i know then There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power … If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole. The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ? Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned Thank you. Good answer. so the days are gone when we just build things for the public that are beautiful. The public purse so squeezed that such things are now assigned to history. I disagree that their needs to be such scarce funds, but maybe we can look forward to the return of the philanthropic donation and statue of Amazon and Google to brighten our parks. On taxation, would you return to those low tax days and put up with the Cholera and TB outbreaks, maybe accept that only half your children survive? Seems to me modern man is very much a cake and eat it creature. TB is up 7% over the past year and we have record levels of taxation... So yes, damn right I would like to return to the days of low taxation when we had eradicated TB. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 27, 2023 13:03:24 GMT
Thank you. Good answer. so the days are gone when we just build things for the public that are beautiful. The public purse so squeezed that such things are now assigned to history. I disagree that their needs to be such scarce funds, but maybe we can look forward to the return of the philanthropic donation and statue of Amazon and Google to brighten our parks. On taxation, would you return to those low tax days and put up with the Cholera and TB outbreaks, maybe accept that only half your children survive? Seems to me modern man is very much a cake and eat it creature. TB is up 7% over the past year and we have record levels of taxation... So yes, damn right I would like to return to the days of low taxation when we had eradicated TB. We're talking about Victorian times. If you're going to join in at least read the posts. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 27, 2023 16:34:26 GMT
Ok. Stick with areas i know then There are a number of impressive public open spaces and public buildings in Cardiff and Bristol, mostly old and built with money donated by philanthropists whose ways of making money don’t exactly meet with the approval of current racists in power … If only the current shower WOULD follow the example set in the past. The whole of Cardiff bay is a shithole. The thing is though, many ‘historic’ parks statues and buildings were funded from public subscription or philanthropic donation at a time when taxation was a fraction if what it is today and state support even less so Should the Welsh Assembly squander scarce funds on artwork when those taxed by them must rely on foodbanks ? Maybe we need a tax relief system nearer that of the yanks where philanthropy is concerned Thank you. Good answer. so the days are gone when we just build things for the public that are beautiful. The public purse so squeezed that such things are now assigned to history. I disagree that their needs to be such scarce funds, but maybe we can look forward to the return of the philanthropic donation and statue of Amazon and Google to brighten our parks. On taxation, would you return to those low tax days and put up with the Cholera and TB outbreaks, maybe accept that only half your children survive? Seems to me modern man is very much a cake and eat it creature. You raise an interesting point regarding Amazon and Google. Given the obscene amount of money Bezos makes, maybe we should find a way to screw money out of him to fund public architecture But let’s look at the last point. Tax, The NHS and Medical Research. You ask if i want to go back to a low tax regime where people die of cholera or TB. In fact cures for both cholera and TB were discovered when the NHS and the taxation system as we know it today was in its infancy. continued treatment of the infected masses is trivial as far as expenditure goes, so i presume what you are really asking is whether i am prepared to see a reduction in medical research investment and risk the consequences of non treatment of something as a result Well, you ask the wrong guy. I am after all the guy who Maggie Thatcher threw on the street who was working on the chemical basis if the Covid Virus but didn’t know it. However it seems to me the world handled 1981-2019 pretty well without my input on that front. Of course i want to sustain medical research. But that takes barely 1p in the pound stolen from me. Its the other 99p spent on wastrels and vanity shit and HS2 i wand shelved |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 27, 2023 18:53:40 GMT
Thank you. Good answer. so the days are gone when we just build things for the public that are beautiful. The public purse so squeezed that such things are now assigned to history. I disagree that their needs to be such scarce funds, but maybe we can look forward to the return of the philanthropic donation and statue of Amazon and Google to brighten our parks. On taxation, would you return to those low tax days and put up with the Cholera and TB outbreaks, maybe accept that only half your children survive? Seems to me modern man is very much a cake and eat it creature. You raise an interesting point regarding Amazon and Google. Given the obscene amount of money Bezos makes, maybe we should find a way to screw money out of him to fund public architecture But let’s look at the last point. Tax, The NHS and Medical Research. You ask if i want to go back to a low tax regime where people die of cholera or TB. In fact cures for both cholera and TB were discovered when the NHS and the taxation system as we know it today was in its infancy. continued treatment of the infected masses is trivial as far as expenditure goes, so i presume what you are really asking is whether i am prepared to see a reduction in medical research investment and risk the consequences of non treatment of something as a result Well, you ask the wrong guy. I am after all the guy who Maggie Thatcher threw on the street who was working on the chemical basis if the Covid Virus but didn’t know it. However it seems to me the world handled 1981-2019 pretty well without my input on that front. Of course i want to sustain medical research. But that takes barely 1p in the pound stolen from me. Its the other 99p spent on wastrels and vanity shit and HS2 i wand shelved I would prefer to squeeze some tax out of the hard pressed mega-rich, but they have persuaded the public that tax rises means anyone who's done well. So every pensioner fears a tax rise. Indeed tax rises are always targeted at the middle income and moderately wealthy, affirming their worries even though it doesn't have to be that way. Re medical research: I was thinking more about the results of that research, the ever increasing malady's we are able to treat and the ever lengthening of life bought about by your good self and others. Ask anyone which one of these advances they wish to see cut and they pick some ridiculous tiny thing like sex change (guaranteed not to effect themselves) So we see ever more cuts in everything else and still the NHS on the verge of collapse. We see legal immigration at obscene levels as governments try frantically to grow GDP each year to put the problems back another year. I've tried every angle to get recognition of this approaching disaster as the need for money grows along side the wealth gap. I have suggested the idea that maybe we could take more on voluntarily but everything from repairing our own pot holes to taking our own rubbish to a communal bin is scorned upon as impractical. So my conclusion that we have a generation of 'cake and eat it'. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2023 15:05:50 GMT
Labour council slapped down as authority warned ‘bad management’ to blame for bankruptcyNottingham Council has been slapped down by the head of a new local government watchdog, which said that councils are going bankrupt because of poor financial management not a lack of money - linkBad management the cause of Labour council bankruptcies! Surely not...
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Post by zanygame on Dec 28, 2023 15:53:58 GMT
Labour council slapped down as authority warned ‘bad management’ to blame for bankruptcyNottingham Council has been slapped down by the head of a new local government watchdog, which said that councils are going bankrupt because of poor financial management not a lack of money - linkBad management the cause of Labour council bankruptcies! Surely not... Where as Northampton Tory council went under through no fault of their own. And Conservative-led Croydon council declared bankruptcy three times in two years, through no fault of their own. Then there's Thurrock, Woking, slough. You need to get a handle fitted to your neck. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 28, 2023 15:59:36 GMT
Labour council slapped down as authority warned ‘bad management’ to blame for bankruptcyNottingham Council has been slapped down by the head of a new local government watchdog, which said that councils are going bankrupt because of poor financial management not a lack of money - linkBad management the cause of Labour council bankruptcies! Surely not... That said, I can vouch for the bad management of Nottingham council where ideals have overtaken reality. I have 3 sets of friends in Notts, all now shop in Leicester because its easier to get to, park and still has shops open. I have a business in Nottingham which we are closing in 30 days as we have replaced it with one in Leicester because of the Notts councils impossible planning conditions and the fact they charge you 700 quid each time to tell you NO. |
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