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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2023 16:15:03 GMT
Gove started talking about that the other day - he was soon shut down. Apparently the origin of the pandemic is outside of their remit. Probably because they cannot blame Boris for it..  No, but we could blame China, but it is politically impossible as they own half the world. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 29, 2023 16:53:22 GMT
Yes, the China question is one that seems to have been dropped internationally.
The proximity of the outbreak to the Wuhan lab is suspicious enough in its own right but I was listening to someone from the WHO a while back and he came very close to admitting that COVID was a lab leak, before swiftly stating that the source was no longer of interest.
So I've no doubt that it originated in the lab but whether it was released on purpose I wouldn't like to say.
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 30, 2023 8:16:56 GMT
Boris wont be in charge the next time round, he's history, this enquire should focus on the future not the past, focus on what was right and correct during Covid, and what needs to improve or implement the next time round. That's what people expect for their £100 millions worth..... results. The inquiry is not about Boris, it is about dealing with the next pandemic better than we dealt with the last one. The fact is that the reason why we got it wrong was because we used a model that was developed for flu on a corona virus that was deliberately manipulated to be highly infectious and attack the respiratory system. And it was infectious for at least a week before it became symptomatic. Yet the enquiry is spending its time trawling through expletive ridden emails written by politicians and advisors and the diary of Liberty Valance. These are complete nonsense written by people who knew nothing about the subject playing silly games. Yet a lot of the knowledge was out there even back in 2020. We had decoded the genome FFS, and this showed that we were dealing with a completely new form of Corona virus. But the scientists - who should have known better - carried on using predictions from Neil Ferguson's hopeless flu model. Look at this link: link And now the Covid enquiry is concentrating on blaming the politicians for what went wrong. How stupid is that. It was the scientists who got it wrong. And there's another very similar debacle unfolding concerning "climate change". Again the scientists are using models that simply don't work and get every prediction wrong year after year. Yet again "the scientists" are treated like saints whose every word has to be gold plated. That's appropriate for the likes of Einstein (whose theories worked) but not for the bunch of charlatans who push this climate nonsense. And Neil Ferguson was an obvious charlatan. I listened to Ferguson on "A life scientific" where he was talking to Jim Al-Kalili, a few years ago. Anyone who's listened to this program will know that Al-Kalili treats these scientists with great deference - which they usually deserve. Not in the case of Ferguson though. It's worth listening to. Al-Kalili was in no doubt about what Ferguson's forte is. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 30, 2023 14:37:04 GMT
The inquiry is not about Boris, it is about dealing with the next pandemic better than we dealt with the last one. The fact is that the reason why we got it wrong was because we used a model that was developed for flu on a corona virus that was deliberately manipulated to be highly infectious and attack the respiratory system. And it was infectious for at least a week before it became symptomatic. Yet the enquiry is spending its time trawling through expletive ridden emails written by politicians and advisors and the diary of Liberty Valance. These are complete nonsense written by people who knew nothing about the subject playing silly games. Yet a lot of the knowledge was out there even back in 2020. We had decoded the genome FFS, and this showed that we were dealing with a completely new form of Corona virus. But the scientists - who should have known better - carried on using predictions from Neil Ferguson's hopeless flu model. Look at this link: link And now the Covid enquiry is concentrating on blaming the politicians for what went wrong. How stupid is that. It was the scientists who got it wrong. And there's another very similar debacle unfolding concerning "climate change". Again the scientists are using models that simply don't work and get every prediction wrong year after year. Yet again "the scientists" are treated like saints whose every word has to be gold plated. That's appropriate for the likes of Einstein (whose theories worked) but not for the bunch of charlatans who push this climate nonsense. And Neil Ferguson was an obvious charlatan. I listened to Ferguson on "A life scientific" where he was talking to Jim Al-Kalili, a few years ago. Anyone who's listened to this program will know that Al-Kalili treats these scientists with great deference - which they usually deserve. Not in the case of Ferguson though. It's worth listening to. Al-Kalili was in no doubt about what Ferguson's forte is. How stupid would it be to ignore the actions of the government, after all they were the ones in control. February 2019, the government body responsible, let the government know that the Reserves kept ready for the next outbreak of a pandemic (that everyone knew would come) was "out of date" it needed replenishing. The government ignored that information then found themselves in difficulty with procuring what they needed because everyone else was already buying up supplies. January 2020, when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries. Matt Hancock, -everything was always 'there when needed',- well no it wasn't, he just thought he would pretend the government was the 7th Cavalry. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 30, 2023 16:22:00 GMT
How stupid would it be to ignore the actions of the government, after all they were the ones in control.
But they will not be in control next time. What we need is to know whether lockdown was the best course of action, whether shutting the schools was wise, whether the ridiculous mask and distance mandates were necessary and whether the groupthink from the 'experts' should have had more diverse opinions in it. Knowing that Boris and Hancock are idiots is not going to help.. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 1, 2023 7:57:23 GMT
The fact is that the reason why we got it wrong was because we used a model that was developed for flu on a corona virus that was deliberately manipulated to be highly infectious and attack the respiratory system. And it was infectious for at least a week before it became symptomatic. Yet the enquiry is spending its time trawling through expletive ridden emails written by politicians and advisors and the diary of Liberty Valance. These are complete nonsense written by people who knew nothing about the subject playing silly games. Yet a lot of the knowledge was out there even back in 2020. We had decoded the genome FFS, and this showed that we were dealing with a completely new form of Corona virus. But the scientists - who should have known better - carried on using predictions from Neil Ferguson's hopeless flu model. Look at this link: link And now the Covid enquiry is concentrating on blaming the politicians for what went wrong. How stupid is that. It was the scientists who got it wrong. And there's another very similar debacle unfolding concerning "climate change". Again the scientists are using models that simply don't work and get every prediction wrong year after year. Yet again "the scientists" are treated like saints whose every word has to be gold plated. That's appropriate for the likes of Einstein (whose theories worked) but not for the bunch of charlatans who push this climate nonsense. And Neil Ferguson was an obvious charlatan. I listened to Ferguson on "A life scientific" where he was talking to Jim Al-Kalili, a few years ago. Anyone who's listened to this program will know that Al-Kalili treats these scientists with great deference - which they usually deserve. Not in the case of Ferguson though. It's worth listening to. Al-Kalili was in no doubt about what Ferguson's forte is. How stupid would it be to ignore the actions of the government, after all they were the ones in control. February 2019, the government body responsible, let the government know that the Reserves kept ready for the next outbreak of a pandemic (that everyone knew would come) was "out of date" it needed replenishing. The government ignored that information then found themselves in difficulty with procuring what they needed because everyone else was already buying up supplies. January 2020, when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries. Matt Hancock, -everything was always 'there when needed',- well no it wasn't, he just thought he would pretend the government was the 7th Cavalry. The govt were NOT in control. Why do people think that the "government" controls things? They're just a bunch of politicians who don't know much about anything. When something like a pandemic comes along they need to rely on specialist advisers (SAGE) and it was they that made the mistakes. And the idea that we can stockpile all the equipment we'll need is wrong because 1) the equipment goes out of date 2) you don't know what kind of pandemic you'll be facing and 3) the equipment needed changes with new knowledge (so we learned that ventilators and masks don't work very well). The biggest mistake made was that we were expecting a Flu pandemic. So who do you blame for that? It wasn't any of our politicians who decided that. But that was at the heart of all the mistakes we made. No one expected a Corona virus that had been modified in Wuhan Institute of Virology. But the enquiry isn't going to even consider this. As " when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries", bollocks. This is the opposite of the truth. We had the first vaccine FFS. And while the EU was faffing around we had approved the vaccine and were way ahead of anyone else in vaccinations. Yet you're even blaming the govt for their successes. And the idea that we had "de facto" herd immunity, we did NOT. That was the initial idea but it was squashed by Ferguson's useless model that predicted the collapse of the NHS if this were followed. Were you following this stuff? apparently not. In fact the herd immunity policy is basically what Sweden used and it worked well. The govt should also have done a cost benefit analysis like NICE does. This basically applies a maximum amount that can be paid for each extra year of life that treatment gives patients. And the cost of lockdown massively exceeded the maximum £30k figure. So it should NOT have been done. Vast amounts of money was spent on keeping 80 year olds alive while neglecting younger people with illnesses like cancer. I wonder if the enquiry will ever get on to looking at this. Probably not. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 1, 2023 8:07:49 GMT
The govt were NOT in control. Why do people think that the "government" controls things? They're just a bunch of politicians who don't know much about anything. When something like a pandemic comes along they need to rely on specialist advisers (SAGE) and it was they that made the mistakes. And the idea that we can stockpile all the equipment we'll need is wrong because 1) the equipment goes out of date 2) you don't know what kind of pandemic you'll be facing and 3) the equipment needed changes with new knowledge (so we learned that ventilators and masks don't work very well). The biggest mistake made was that we were expecting a Flu pandemic. So who do you blame for that? It wasn't any of our politicians who decided that. But that was at the heart of all the mistakes we made. No one expected a Corona virus that had been modified in Wuhan Institute of Virology. But the enquiry isn't going to even consider this. As " when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries", bollocks. This is the opposite of the truth. We had the first vaccine FFS. And while the EU was faffing around we had approved the vaccine and were way ahead of anyone else in vaccinations. Yet you're even blaming the govt for their successes. And the idea that we had "de facto" herd immunity, we did NOT. That was the initial idea but it was squashed by Ferguson's useless model that predicted the collapse of the NHS if this were followed. Were you following this stuff? apparently not. In fact the herd immunity policy is basically what Sweden used and it worked well. The govt should also have done a cost benefit analysis like NICE does. This basically applies a maximum amount that can be paid for each extra year of life that treatment gives patients. And the cost of lockdown massively exceeded the maximum £30k figure. So it should NOT have been done. Vast amounts of money was spent on keeping 80 year olds alive while neglecting younger people with illnesses like cancer. I wonder if the enquiry will ever get on to looking at this. Probably not. Absolutely spot on. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 11:51:22 GMT
How stupid would it be to ignore the actions of the government, after all they were the ones in control.
But they will not be in control next time. What we need is to know whether lockdown was the best course of action, whether shutting the schools was wise, whether the ridiculous mask and distance mandates were necessary and whether the groupthink from the 'experts' should have had more diverse opinions in it. Knowing that Boris and Hancock are idiots is not going to help.. The latest I've heard on the lockdown is that it was four weeks later than it should have been. I'm sure that your "need to know" is the same as the Inquiry's need to know. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 12:01:57 GMT
How stupid would it be to ignore the actions of the government, after all they were the ones in control. February 2019, the government body responsible, let the government know that the Reserves kept ready for the next outbreak of a pandemic (that everyone knew would come) was "out of date" it needed replenishing. The government ignored that information then found themselves in difficulty with procuring what they needed because everyone else was already buying up supplies. January 2020, when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries. Matt Hancock, -everything was always 'there when needed',- well no it wasn't, he just thought he would pretend the government was the 7th Cavalry. The govt were NOT in control. Why do people think that the "government" controls things? They're just a bunch of politicians who don't know much about anything. When something like a pandemic comes along they need to rely on specialist advisers (SAGE) and it was they that made the mistakes. And the idea that we can stockpile all the equipment we'll need is wrong because 1) the equipment goes out of date 2) you don't know what kind of pandemic you'll be facing and 3) the equipment needed changes with new knowledge (so we learned that ventilators and masks don't work very well). The biggest mistake made was that we were expecting a Flu pandemic. So who do you blame for that? It wasn't any of our politicians who decided that. But that was at the heart of all the mistakes we made. No one expected a Corona virus that had been modified in Wuhan Institute of Virology. But the enquiry isn't going to even consider this. As " when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries", bollocks. This is the opposite of the truth. We had the first vaccine FFS. And while the EU was faffing around we had approved the vaccine and were way ahead of anyone else in vaccinations. Yet you're even blaming the govt for their successes. And the idea that we had "de facto" herd immunity, we did NOT. That was the initial idea but it was squashed by Ferguson's useless model that predicted the collapse of the NHS if this were followed. Were you following this stuff? apparently not. In fact the herd immunity policy is basically what Sweden used and it worked well. The govt should also have done a cost benefit analysis like NICE does. This basically applies a maximum amount that can be paid for each extra year of life that treatment gives patients. And the cost of lockdown massively exceeded the maximum £30k figure. So it should NOT have been done. Vast amounts of money was spent on keeping 80 year olds alive while neglecting younger people with illnesses like cancer. I wonder if the enquiry will ever get on to looking at this. Probably not. . The decision to ignore the information that reserves on pandemic materials were poor, was the governments decision. The Herd Immunity of Jan 2020 was down to the government. The government were the ones who made the decisions. The where and when to buy needed equipment for treating the pandemic was in the hands of the government. as too were the dates for the lockdowns. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 12:04:01 GMT
The govt were NOT in control. Why do people think that the "government" controls things? They're just a bunch of politicians who don't know much about anything. When something like a pandemic comes along they need to rely on specialist advisers (SAGE) and it was they that made the mistakes. And the idea that we can stockpile all the equipment we'll need is wrong because 1) the equipment goes out of date 2) you don't know what kind of pandemic you'll be facing and 3) the equipment needed changes with new knowledge (so we learned that ventilators and masks don't work very well). The biggest mistake made was that we were expecting a Flu pandemic. So who do you blame for that? It wasn't any of our politicians who decided that. But that was at the heart of all the mistakes we made. No one expected a Corona virus that had been modified in Wuhan Institute of Virology. But the enquiry isn't going to even consider this. As " when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries", bollocks. This is the opposite of the truth. We had the first vaccine FFS. And while the EU was faffing around we had approved the vaccine and were way ahead of anyone else in vaccinations. Yet you're even blaming the govt for their successes. And the idea that we had "de facto" herd immunity, we did NOT. That was the initial idea but it was squashed by Ferguson's useless model that predicted the collapse of the NHS if this were followed. Were you following this stuff? apparently not. In fact the herd immunity policy is basically what Sweden used and it worked well. The govt should also have done a cost benefit analysis like NICE does. This basically applies a maximum amount that can be paid for each extra year of life that treatment gives patients. And the cost of lockdown massively exceeded the maximum £30k figure. So it should NOT have been done. Vast amounts of money was spent on keeping 80 year olds alive while neglecting younger people with illnesses like cancer. I wonder if the enquiry will ever get on to looking at this. Probably not. Absolutely spot on. Nonsense. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 2, 2023 12:04:53 GMT
But they will not be in control next time. What we need is to know whether lockdown was the best course of action, whether shutting the schools was wise, whether the ridiculous mask and distance mandates were necessary and whether the groupthink from the 'experts' should have had more diverse opinions in it. Knowing that Boris and Hancock are idiots is not going to help.. The latest I've heard on the lockdown is that it was four weeks later than it should have been. I'm sure that your "need to know" is the same as the Inquiry's need to know. heard from who? - infections were already falling by the time it was brought in so whether it was needed at all is moot. This is what I mean about groupthink - the enquiry has already taken it as gospel that lockdowns were needed and no alternatives are being considered. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 14:38:24 GMT
The latest I've heard on the lockdown is that it was four weeks later than it should have been. I'm sure that your "need to know" is the same as the Inquiry's need to know. heard from who? - infections were already falling by the time it was brought in so whether it was needed at all is moot. This is what I mean about groupthink - the enquiry has already taken it as gospel that lockdowns were needed and no alternatives are being considered. I didn't take a note but IIRC it was a comment made during the Inquiry. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 15:24:12 GMT
Yes, the China question is one that seems to have been dropped internationally. The proximity of the outbreak to the Wuhan lab is suspicious enough in its own right but I was listening to someone from the WHO a while back and he came very close to admitting that COVID was a lab leak, before swiftly stating that the source was no longer of interest. So I've no doubt that it originated in the lab but whether it was released on purpose I wouldn't like to say. There is way too much invested in China to address it properly. I think it will happen again, but there will be little faith in the government to abide to its demands. Let's hope it isn't even more deadly. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 2, 2023 17:16:03 GMT
I see that the Tories' conspirator in chief, Michael Gove, has been questioned in the Covid enquiry. Why anybody should believe a word this guy says is beyond me, but it was very interesting that, when he tried to talk about the origins of Covid - i.e. the fairly obvious fact that it was created by modifying a bat virus (for gain of function) in the Wuhan Institute of Virology - he was quickly shut down by the lawyer who was interviewing him. Apparently it is "too divisive" and has been ruled out of their scope of enquiry. Sorry Govey but this enquiry is mainly concerned with tittle tattle - not facts. The whole purpose of this enquiry is to entirely discredit the Tory govt at the time of the Covid outbreak. Principally that means finally putting a wooden stake through Boris's heart - to prevent any chance of him resurrecting his career - and the same goes for Matt Hancock. They'll probably get onto Partygate soon - after all you can never hear too much about this - and Hancock's affair with a colleague. Will they ever mention that Neil Ferguson's model was a heap of shit and had got absolutely every prediction it ever made wrong? No of course not. And anyone who tries to talk about what actually started the outbreak - where the real blame lies - is going to be shut down immediately. This is not what it's about FFS. It would obviously be "racist" to blame the Chinese. And the WHO have exonerated them of all blame anyway.  And this bollocks is going to go on 4 more years. But I'll tell you now what the main conclusions will be. It was all Boris's fault and his government was a disaster. And they should have locked down earlier and harder. Everybody knew that. And Boris broke the rules and should be barred from public office in perpetuity. And they'll quietly ignore the fact that the country that didn't lock down at all emerged from the pandemic with the least amount of economic damage and the lowest excess deaths. Fucking wankers the legal profession. This shouldn't even be a legal enquiry that attempts to allocate blame. It should be an enquiry to try to plan for future pandemics by analysing what could have been done better. And the first bit of planning that should be done is to try to work out how to stop China (and America) messing about with dangerous viruses in shoddy laboratories. I think why it happened in China was that the regs were tightened in the US so the gain of function research had to be done offshore. The Wuhan lab was built by the French to a high standard and was for the purpose of researching SARS, a similarly deadly disease. The biosafety looked to me to be sufficient, and what the problem was as far as I can see, is that because China's regs of the time were not strengthened to the US level it made it legal to do it there, so I do not think the research request was Ok'ed by the government itself, but further down the hierarchy. Regs in China in general to do with matters like safety are much lighter than Western counties. They are less developed and are suited to the population they serve. A Chinese firm doing research probably would not have been dangerous, but the problem was letting the Americans do their thing.
It is highly likely they would have employed a bit of deception to gain clearance. You see when covid first got out the government were at a loss as to what it was. They never connected it to the gain of function research. They genuinely said, we do not know and we are investigating. The popular rumour in China was it was a form of pneumonia and they simply replied it was not pneumonia. This led to conspiracy theories they were covering it up, but in fact they were just telling the truth. Furthermore when the idea of inspections of the lab were debated they allowed the inspectors full access. It seems to me the worst you could level agaisnt the Chinese government was they were not tight enough on allowing foreign firms to do this kind of thing. It's the first time they had this kind of problem.
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Post by dodgydave on Dec 3, 2023 3:00:29 GMT
When I listen to the enquiry all I hear is people seeking to lay blame, and pretending that the world is some it is not.
The world is chaos, people are chaos, we cannot shield people from the realities of life. Covid killed a bunch of people who would have been dead inside a year anyway, and we bankrupted the country in some weird attempt to pretend we care. Yes they got things wrong, but in the end our excess death figures were actually not too bad compared to France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
As a key worker (and the partner of one), I don't give two shits about the parties because I SAW WHAT YOU WERE ALL UP TO!!! We all did the bare minimum expected of us, as did the police, because everybody knew it was a waste of time. It was all a game to avoid the woke finger being pointed in our direction.
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And this bollocks is going to go on 4 more years. 