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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 3, 2023 7:48:17 GMT
The govt were NOT in control. Why do people think that the "government" controls things? They're just a bunch of politicians who don't know much about anything. When something like a pandemic comes along they need to rely on specialist advisers (SAGE) and it was they that made the mistakes. And the idea that we can stockpile all the equipment we'll need is wrong because 1) the equipment goes out of date 2) you don't know what kind of pandemic you'll be facing and 3) the equipment needed changes with new knowledge (so we learned that ventilators and masks don't work very well). The biggest mistake made was that we were expecting a Flu pandemic. So who do you blame for that? It wasn't any of our politicians who decided that. But that was at the heart of all the mistakes we made. No one expected a Corona virus that had been modified in Wuhan Institute of Virology. But the enquiry isn't going to even consider this. As " when other countries were reacting to the Virus we had a De facto Herd Immunity in place. This again left the UK reacting late and trailing behind other countries", bollocks. This is the opposite of the truth. We had the first vaccine FFS. And while the EU was faffing around we had approved the vaccine and were way ahead of anyone else in vaccinations. Yet you're even blaming the govt for their successes. And the idea that we had "de facto" herd immunity, we did NOT. That was the initial idea but it was squashed by Ferguson's useless model that predicted the collapse of the NHS if this were followed. Were you following this stuff? apparently not. In fact the herd immunity policy is basically what Sweden used and it worked well. The govt should also have done a cost benefit analysis like NICE does. This basically applies a maximum amount that can be paid for each extra year of life that treatment gives patients. And the cost of lockdown massively exceeded the maximum £30k figure. So it should NOT have been done. Vast amounts of money was spent on keeping 80 year olds alive while neglecting younger people with illnesses like cancer. I wonder if the enquiry will ever get on to looking at this. Probably not. . The decision to ignore the information that reserves on pandemic materials were poor, was the governments decision. The Herd Immunity of Jan 2020 was down to the government. The government were the ones who made the decisions. The where and when to buy needed equipment for treating the pandemic was in the hands of the government. as too were the dates for the lockdowns. Basically the scientists (SAGE) said what they thought should be done to minimise deaths and avoid overwhelming the NHS. The govt's job was to decide what actually COULD be done given the finances of the country and the political costs of restricting people's freedoms. In the end SAGE's predictions of what would happen if they didn't lock down at various points were so dire that even Boris (who was against lockdown) capitulated. But the costs of lockdowns were huge and should have been resisted. As for "the reserves on pandemic materials" being poor most of it didn't work anyway. The best preparation that the govt could make for any form of pandemic would be to maintain some spare capacity in the NHS, instead of running it at 100% (or more) capacity all the time. That's why we always have huge waiting lists (unlike other similar countries who have none despite receiving similar funding). BTW The figure that we should have locked down initially came from Matt Hancock (he claimed that he'd said this at the time) but it was 3 weeks not 4, and it was nonsense anyway. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 13:25:40 GMT
The government were the collators of information, from which they made SOME of their decisions. The decision to ignore the information that reserves on pandemic materials were poor, was the governments decision. The Herd Immunity of Jan 2020 was down to the government. The government were the ones who made the decisions. The where and when to buy needed equipment for treating the pandemic was in the hands of the government. as too were the dates for the lockdowns. Basically the scientists (SAGE) said what they thought should be done to minimise deaths and avoid overwhelming the NHS. The govt's job was to decide what actually COULD be done given the finances of the country and the political costs of restricting people's freedoms. In the end SAGE's predictions of what would happen if they didn't lock down at various points were so dire that even Boris (who was against lockdown) capitulated. But the costs of lockdowns were huge and should have been resisted. As for "the reserves on pandemic materials" being poor most of it didn't work anyway. The best preparation that the govt could make for any form of pandemic would be to maintain some spare capacity in the NHS, instead of running it at 100% (or more) capacity all the time. That's why we always have huge waiting lists (unlike other similar countries who have none despite receiving similar funding). BTW The figure that we should have locked down initially came from Matt Hancock (he claimed that he'd said this at the time) but it was 3 weeks not 4, and it was nonsense anyway. Thanks for your opinions, I'll wait for the outcome of the Enquiry. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 4, 2023 8:21:33 GMT
We already know the outcome of the enquiry. The outcome is basically defined by the line of enquiry they're following and the people they've chosen to conduct the enquiry - i.e. a bunch of KCs. Complete waste of time and money.
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 4, 2023 10:19:29 GMT
Is there even any point in this comedy of errors ?
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Post by sheepy on Dec 4, 2023 10:43:32 GMT
Is there even any point in this comedy of errors ? Well who wants to live on the lower Thames? with the riff raff. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 7, 2023 6:06:58 GMT
Covid Inquiry lawyer forced to backtrack after making false claim while grilling Boris Johnson.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 7, 2023 8:16:04 GMT
It's crazy that barristers are trying to debate about scientific evidence - they plainly don't understand all the factors involved. As Boris said England is about the most densely populated country in Europe which is a known factor in transmission of viruses. He could also have added that we have large populations of BAME communities who are known to be more vulnerable to Covid than White people - because of many factors including lack of Vitamin D, tendency to live in multi-general families, unwillingness to follow Covid rules (as evidenced by FPNs) etc etc. Another factor is that we used a wider definition of death from Covid than most countries - i.e. anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive for Covid.
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Post by Fairsociety on Dec 7, 2023 9:27:39 GMT
I don't know why Johnson even bothered to turn up, he's been stitched up like a kipper from the beginning, personally I'd have stuck two fingers up to the lot of them, and let them carry on wasting over £100 million of tax payers money on a inquiry no one gives two fucks about.
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Post by jonksy on Dec 7, 2023 9:32:38 GMT
I don't know why Johnson even bothered to turn up, he's been stitched up like a kipper from the beginning, personally I'd have stuck two fingers up to the lot of them, and let them carry on wasting over £100 million of tax payers money on a inquiry no one gives two fucks about. The real criminals who should be up before the beak is starmer and gray mate pluss Rayner etc. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Dec 7, 2023 9:40:24 GMT
I don't know why Johnson even bothered to turn up, he's been stitched up like a kipper from the beginning, personally I'd have stuck two fingers up to the lot of them, and let them carry on wasting over £100 million of tax payers money on a inquiry no one gives two fucks about. The real criminals who should be up before the beak is starmer and gray mate pluss Rayner etc. This whole inquiry stinks of Starmer/Rayner, the pair of them were completely and utterly obsessed with Johnson, it became an illness for them.
Even now they can't let go, the pair of them need some therapy, and the tax payers should make Labour pay for this stitch up inquiry, they are using it as part of their election campaign, trying to make out they would have done everything right during Covid......... lying dirty bastards.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 7, 2023 13:30:27 GMT
I happened to watch a bit of BBC's Politics Live and they were repeating bits of the cross examination of Boris. And you can probably guess which bit they were showing - yes, it was the questioning about Partygate. Except when Boris started to explain what really happened they cut away. It never stops.
What exactly we can learn from the parties held in No 10 I don't know. I also see absolutely no reason why Partygate should be a subject of interest for a Covid enquiry. This is simply their attempt to politicise the whole process and make sure that there are crowds of people booing Boris when comes out of the court.
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Post by Fairsociety on Dec 7, 2023 13:44:47 GMT
I happened to watch a bit of BBC's Politics Live and they were repeating bits of the cross examination of Boris. And you can probably guess which bit they were showing - yes, it was the questioning about Partygate. Except when Boris started to explain what really happened they cut away. It never stops. What exactly we can learn from the parties held in No 10 I don't know. I also see absolutely no reason why Partygate should be a subject of interest for a Covid enquiry. This is simply their attempt to politicise the whole process and make sure that there are crowds of people booing Boris when comes out of the court. The most outrageous thing to come out of this inquiry is how the lefties have hijacked it for their own agenda, to think we have spent £100 million of our own money purely for the lefties to use it to discredit Johnson and the Tories, they aren't the slightest bit interested in dealing with Covid itself, and what went right and what went wrong, and what we can learn and do differently for the best, in the event of another pandemic.
This is just a out-and-out witch-hunt crusade on Johnson and the Tories, lead mainly by remainiacs who are determined to punish Johnson for Brexit, the lefties are just a law unto themselves, they can do and say whatever they please.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2023 14:46:19 GMT
Covid Inquiry lawyer forced to backtrack after making false claim while grilling Boris Johnson.
Again you take the gospel of Saint Untruth. "Keith then corrected himself, saying: "In Western Europe, we were one of the worst off, if not the second worst off... why do you think we had the rate of excess deaths in this country that we ultimately did?" He had already made the statement of "comparable countries" and Johnson's attempt to deflect was met with short shrift. The only similar western European country to exceed our excess death rates was Italy and we all saw the pictures of their health service being overrun. The Tories solved the problem of overrunning the NHS by sending thousands of 'Bed blockers' to care homes and decimating the elderly, with the quip "they've had a doo innings". |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2023 14:47:29 GMT
I don't know why Johnson even bothered to turn up, he's been stitched up like a kipper from the beginning, personally I'd have stuck two fingers up to the lot of them, and let them carry on wasting over £100 million of tax payers money on a inquiry no one gives two fucks about. The real criminals who should be up before the beak is starmer and gray mate pluss Rayner etc. Did you pick your name? It is very apt.🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2023 14:48:38 GMT
I happened to watch a bit of BBC's Politics Live and they were repeating bits of the cross examination of Boris. And you can probably guess which bit they were showing - yes, it was the questioning about Partygate. Except when Boris started to explain what really happened they cut away. It never stops. What exactly we can learn from the parties held in No 10 I don't know. I also see absolutely no reason why Partygate should be a subject of interest for a Covid enquiry. This is simply their attempt to politicise the whole process and make sure that there are crowds of people booing Boris when comes out of the court. The most outrageous thing to come out of this inquiry is how the lefties have hijacked it for their own agenda, to think we have spent £100 million of our own money purely for the lefties to use it to discredit Johnson and the Tories, they aren't the slightest bit interested in dealing with Covid itself, and what went right and what went wrong, and what we can learn and do differently for the best, in the event of another pandemic.
This is just a out-and-out witch-hunt crusade on Johnson and the Tories, lead mainly by remainiacs who are determined to punish Johnson for Brexit, the lefties are just a law unto themselves, they can do and say whatever they please.
The Tories have spent £140 million on sending Rwandan asylum seekers to the UK.😂 |
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