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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 18:43:12 GMT
That's the Singapore model. Nothing is grown on the island except for the orchids that are sold to tourists. Everyday a train arrives across the causeway from Johore with live pigs. All drinking water arrives by a pipeline from the same source. All fruit and vegetables are imported as are dairy products like milk, butter and cheese, the latter having to be airfreighted from Australia or New Zealand since the Asian claimate is not conducive to raising livestock. So yes, it can be done. At the Singaporean density of 8,000 per km2 the UK could accommodate a couple of billion, perhaps even more if we hunched up a little closer. Why not eh. Singapore is not a good comparison its too small. I see no reason why we could not happily produce some of our food and import the rest. Build enough homes for our existing population. Stop further immigration. Tax the population sufficiently well to provide the services expected. Even convert some of our ugly fields back into pretty woodlands. The downside about another 10% of disposable income taken in tax from the population. Pipe dream of course, no one really wants what you and I want (for different reasons) enough to make the sacrifices needed. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 26, 2023 18:57:35 GMT
Not round my way . Several orchards there. I haven’t noticed any Romanians with a big smile after a good days apple picking either but I’ll take your word for it . Meanwhile Orchards in England have declined by 56% From 190,000 acres to 106,000 acres Of course, houses have to be built. 670,000 immigrants a year [Not including illegals] have to live somewhere. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 20:06:05 GMT
You use an inappropriate anecdote to avoid my point rather than address it. Bringing people in to grow food in order to feed people, is clearly the result of a deeper malfunction. Its reality. People in other countries can produce food cheaper than we can because their labour is cheaper. The only way we can compete in that market is to bring in cheap labour to compete. We could ofcourse ban imports from other countries and force people to pay higher prices for our food. Would you consider doing that? You keep sliding between importing food and importing people. importing people to keep up with the number of people to feed, is simply bonkers. You could only end up with such nonsense if your whole social system was borked. If you already have too many people, why would you import more to solve a problem? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 21:18:22 GMT
Meanwhile Orchards in England have declined by 56% From 190,000 acres to 106,000 acres Of course, houses have to be built. 670,000 immigrants a year [Not including illegals] have to live somewhere. Oh leave off Red. I have said a thousand times I want immigration stopped, but we have to provide enough homes for those already here don't we? Or do you have a dastardly plan to send them all packing? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 21:23:32 GMT
Its reality. People in other countries can produce food cheaper than we can because their labour is cheaper. The only way we can compete in that market is to bring in cheap labour to compete. We could ofcourse ban imports from other countries and force people to pay higher prices for our food. Would you consider doing that? You keep sliding between importing food and importing people. importing people to keep up with the number of people to feed, is simply bonkers. You could only end up with such nonsense if your whole social system was borked. If you already have too many people, why would you import more to solve a problem? For a start the people producing the food do not eat all they produce. Beyond that I gave my explanations very clearly. Beyond that how do you square the circle? Your Idea of coercing those on benefits into growing our food is just bonkers, do you have any better solution. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 21:37:37 GMT
You keep sliding between importing food and importing people. importing people to keep up with the number of people to feed, is simply bonkers. You could only end up with such nonsense if your whole social system was borked. If you already have too many people, why would you import more to solve a problem? For a start the people producing the food do not eat all they produce. Beyond that I gave my explanations very clearly. Beyond that how do you square the circle? Your Idea of coercing those on benefits into growing our food is just bonkers, do you have any better solution. No. Your 'solution' of remedying a problem that amounts to too many people for the land available, by flooding in yet more people, is clearly bonkers. I haven't offered a detailed solution. However, the broad notion of using the resources we have to supply ourselves, may have pluses or minuses, but is not plain bonkers in the same way the current status quo is. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 26, 2023 21:48:56 GMT
Of course, houses have to be built. 670,000 immigrants a year [Not including illegals] have to live somewhere. Oh leave off Red. I have said a thousand times I want immigration stopped, but we have to provide enough homes for those already here don't we? Or do you have a dastardly plan to send them all packing? Well it's a plan, whether it's a dastardly plan depends on whether you're a minority appeasing lefty I suppose. 1. Vastly reduce the number of work visas we issue. 2. Stop students bringing their entire bloody families with them. 3. Stop treating cross channel criminals who have no ID as asylum seekers/refugees. 4. All immigrants to go the back of the housing queue. 5. Encourage a hostile environment for illegals, just like the EU do. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 21:58:24 GMT
For a start the people producing the food do not eat all they produce. Beyond that I gave my explanations very clearly. Beyond that how do you square the circle? Your Idea of coercing those on benefits into growing our food is just bonkers, do you have any better solution. No. Your 'solution' of remedying a problem that amounts to too many people for the land available, by flooding in yet more people, is clearly bonkers. I haven't offered a detailed solution. However, the broad notion of using the resources we have to supply ourselves, may have pluses or minuses, but is not plain bonkers in the same way the current status quo is.How many people do you think we need to pick fruit? Flooding the land Jeez your whole argument relies on scare stories for children. Besides that, my suggestion was THAT WE DON'T IMPORT PEOPLE WE IMPORT FOOD. Your plusses and minuses remain unexplained, but nicely glossed over. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 22:02:32 GMT
Oh leave off Red. I have said a thousand times I want immigration stopped, but we have to provide enough homes for those already here don't we? Or do you have a dastardly plan to send them all packing? Well it's a plan, whether it's a dastardly plan depends on whether you're a minority appeasing lefty I suppose. 1. Vastly reduce the number of work visas we issue. 2. Stop students bringing their entire bloody families with them. 3. Stop treating cross channel criminals who have no ID as asylum seekers/refugees. 4. All immigrants to go the back of the housing queue. 5. Encourage a hostile environment for illegals, just like the EU do. I'm talking about the ones already here. Enough houses for the ones already here. The ones already here. Living here already. As in already invited by us. As in settled here. Not sure I can make it any simpler for you. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 22:04:20 GMT
Mechanical apple picking is available now.
The lefties that want us to import cheap agricultural labour are modern day Luddite’s .
If a smiling ( allegedly) Romanian can do it then a machine can do it
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 22:13:20 GMT
No. Your 'solution' of remedying a problem that amounts to too many people for the land available, by flooding in yet more people, is clearly bonkers. I haven't offered a detailed solution. However, the broad notion of using the resources we have to supply ourselves, may have pluses or minuses, but is not plain bonkers in the same way the current status quo is.How many people do you think we need to pick fruit? Flooding the land Jeez your whole argument relies on scare stories for children. B esides that, my suggestion was THAT WE DON'T IMPORT PEOPLE WE IMPORT FOOD.Your plusses and minuses remain unexplained, but nicely glossed over. Zany, I earlier raised the fact that you seem determined to talk about something that I am not talking about. I'm talking about (criticising) importing people Do we now agree that you are talking at cross purposes to my point? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 22:46:04 GMT
Mechanical apple picking is available now. The lefties that want us to import cheap agricultural labour are modern day Luddite’s . If a smiling ( allegedly) Romanian can do it then a machine can do it Problem solved then. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 22:46:55 GMT
Mechanical apple picking is available now. The lefties that want us to import cheap agricultural labour are modern day Luddite’s . If a smiling ( allegedly) Romanian can do it then a machine can do it Problem solved then. Getting there .. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 22:53:33 GMT
How many people do you think we need to pick fruit? Flooding the land Jeez your whole argument relies on scare stories for children. B esides that, my suggestion was THAT WE DON'T IMPORT PEOPLE WE IMPORT FOOD.Your plusses and minuses remain unexplained, but nicely glossed over. Zany, I earlier raised the fact that you seem determined to talk about something that I am not talking about. I'm talking about (criticising) importing people Do we now agree that you are talking at cross purposes to my point? The day you set what I am allowed to talk about is the day I leave the site. I haven't gone off subject and I have answered your points directly. I have no idea what your point was but the conversation was one you joined that was going on between myself and Dan. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 22:56:28 GMT
Zany, I earlier raised the fact that you seem determined to talk about something that I am not talking about. I'm talking about (criticising) importing people Do we now agree that you are talking at cross purposes to my point? The day you set what I am allowed to talk about is the day I leave the site. I haven't gone off subject and I have answered your points directly. I have no idea what your point was but the conversation was one you joined that was going on between myself and Dan. I'm not setting what you talk about. You responded to my post about moving people |
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