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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 12:40:16 GMT
I think those days are long gone now zany. Mores the pity. It went with Brexit. Now those orchards are all just big ploughed fields, such a shame. Not round my way . Several orchards there. I haven’t noticed any Romanians with a big smile after a good days apple picking either but I’ll take your word for it . |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 12:48:23 GMT
I'm struck by the paradox that we have too many people to feed but not enough people to produce food.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 13:21:35 GMT
It went with Brexit. Now those orchards are all just big ploughed fields, such a shame. Not round my way . Several orchards there. I haven’t noticed any Romanians with a big smile after a good days apple picking either but I’ll take your word for it . I live in Cambridge. Land of orchards and flower growing. Though the flowers nearly all went while I was still a child. Didn't realise you lived in Spain. Meanwhile Orchards in England have declined by 56% From 190,000 acres to 106,000 acres |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 13:22:53 GMT
I'm struck by the paradox that we have too many people to feed but not enough people to produce food. To produce food cheaply enough. There, fixed it for you. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 26, 2023 13:28:16 GMT
Not round my way . Several orchards there. I haven’t noticed any Romanians with a big smile after a good days apple picking either but I’ll take your word for it . I live in Cambridge. Land of orchards and flower growing. Though the flowers nearly all went while I was still a child. Didn't realise you lived in Spain. Meanwhile Orchards in England have declined by 56% From 190,000 acres to 106,000 acres I don’t live in Spain . I live in England . As I said there are several orchards round here and at least one field with berries ( possibly redcurrants ). |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 13:36:14 GMT
I'm struck by the paradox that we have too many people to feed but not enough people to produce food. To produce food cheaply enough. There, fixed it for you. Too many people to produce food cheap enough for the high demand for food - so we urgently need more people? Still having trouble here. My view is that problem is staring us in the face - we have millions of working age people who are labelled 'economically inactive' We have millions more who are not officially labelled economically inactive, but in all real economic terms are actually inactive. The current apparently paradoxically situation is a symptom of this bad organisation. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 14:37:17 GMT
The prairies of England are a result of CAP. Hedgerows were grubbed up all over the country to increase acreage and production to fill the grain bunkers to bursting point. The Green and pleasant land of hedgerows, sunken lanes and winding country roads were sacrificed to the EEC membership. Yes all to increase production and keep prices equivalent to those of countries with far more land. More of the same thing that makes imported cheap labour essential. But as always you refuse to tackle the other side of that equation. Just moan about the result. The CAP was moaned about for years and now we are well shot of it. That is what led to the prairies and enabled the destruction of much of England's green and pleasant land. Importing cheap Labour is not actually what happens, if you have to subsidise 'cheap labour' it is not cheap. It may be to farmers but it is not to the taxpayer. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 16:18:42 GMT
To produce food cheaply enough. There, fixed it for you. Too many people to produce food cheap enough for the high demand for food - so we urgently need more people? Still having trouble here. My view is that problem is staring us in the face - we have millions of working age people who are labelled 'economically inactive' We have millions more who are not officially labelled economically inactive, but in all real economic terms are actually inactive. The current apparently paradoxically situation is a symptom of this bad organisation. You are struggling you poor thing. Not enough people wiling to produce the food cheap enough. We need cheap people or we need to buy food from other countries who use cheap labour. Yes all those economically inactive people, like my mate who stopped work at 48 after he became a millionaire. I'm sure he's up for picking turnips. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2023 16:32:59 GMT
Too many people to produce food cheap enough for the high demand for food - so we urgently need more people? Still having trouble here. My view is that problem is staring us in the face - we have millions of working age people who are labelled 'economically inactive' We have millions more who are not officially labelled economically inactive, but in all real economic terms are actually inactive. The current apparently paradoxically situation is a symptom of this bad organisation. You are struggling you poor thing. Not enough people wiling to produce the food cheap enough. We need cheap people or we need to buy food from other countries who use cheap labour. Yes all those economically inactive people, like my mate who stopped work at 48 after he became a millionaire. I'm sure he's up for picking turnips. You use an inappropriate anecdote to avoid my point rather than address it. Bringing people in to grow food in order to feed people, is clearly the result of a deeper malfunction. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 17:08:21 GMT
You are struggling you poor thing. Not enough people wiling to produce the food cheap enough. We need cheap people or we need to buy food from other countries who use cheap labour. Yes all those economically inactive people, like my mate who stopped work at 48 after he became a millionaire. I'm sure he's up for picking turnips. You use an inappropriate anecdote to avoid my point rather than address it. Bringing people in to grow food in order to feed people, is clearly the result of a deeper malfunction. Its reality. People in other countries can produce food cheaper than we can because their labour is cheaper. The only way we can compete in that market is to bring in cheap labour to compete. We could ofcourse ban imports from other countries and force people to pay higher prices for our food. Would you consider doing that? |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 17:12:31 GMT
You use an inappropriate anecdote to avoid my point rather than address it. Bringing people in to grow food in order to feed people, is clearly the result of a deeper malfunction. Its reality. People in other countries can produce food cheaper than we can because their labour is cheaper. The only way we can compete in that market is to bring in cheap labour to compete. We could ofcourse ban imports from other countries and force people to pay higher prices for our food. Would you consider doing that? Is that not what happened in 1973 when we joined the EEC. Our ability to trade with cheap food from Australia and NZ disappeared |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 17:29:33 GMT
Its reality. People in other countries can produce food cheaper than we can because their labour is cheaper. The only way we can compete in that market is to bring in cheap labour to compete. We could ofcourse ban imports from other countries and force people to pay higher prices for our food. Would you consider doing that? Is that not what happened in 1973 when we joined the EEC. Our ability to trade with cheap food from Australia and NZ disappeared Indeed it did. You really need some muscle to be able to put import duties on other countries without damaging your own trade. So by joining the EEC we became a big enough player to do that. We could try it, but its probably cheaper to just let the public buy food from abroad and focus on jobs that pay enough for our standard of living. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 26, 2023 17:40:08 GMT
That's the Singapore model. Nothing is grown on the island except for the orchids that are sold to tourists. Everyday a train arrives across the causeway from Johore with live pigs. All drinking water arrives by a pipeline from the same source. All fruit and vegetables are imported as are dairy products like milk, butter and cheese, the latter having to be airfreighted from Australia or New Zealand since the Asian claimate is not conducive to raising livestock.
So yes, it can be done. At the Singaporean density of 8,000 per km2 the UK could accommodate a couple of billion, perhaps even more if we hunched up a little closer. Why not eh.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 26, 2023 17:44:15 GMT
Is that not what happened in 1973 when we joined the EEC. Our ability to trade with cheap food from Australia and NZ disappeared Indeed it did. You really need some muscle to be able to put import duties on other countries without damaging your own trade.
So by joining the EEC we became a big enough player to do that. We could try it, but its probably cheaper to just let the public buy food from abroad and focus on jobs that pay enough for our standard of living. Why do you want import duties - what is gained by making yourself poorer? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 26, 2023 18:20:26 GMT
Import duties on physical goods probably make little sense for the UK anymore since it produces so little of what it consumes. However the EU has a great deal of internal production that predators and bottom-feeders would like to take a slice out of so a common external tariff makes complete sense in their case.
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