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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2023 11:58:56 GMT
Apart from students, the other big area of net immigration is work apparently mainly in health and social care. Caring especially for old people is surely a necessity. It is not a particularly well paid or pleasant job but we need it. People born in the UK however tend not to want to do those jobs. If those are genuine reflections of hard facts, what is the alternative to immigration?
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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2023 12:00:13 GMT
I meant to post this in Mind Zone but seemingly missed. I may be getting old. Don’t suppose it really matters!
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2023 12:01:21 GMT
This issue isn't employing economic migrants, the issue is them bringing their entire family along with them, how can you warrant employing one person who brings along another four, who wont be employed, someone has to keep them ........... us.
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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2023 12:13:42 GMT
It’s actually a reasonable question you ask.
Let’s accept for now that there is a material gap between the need for people to care for elderly people in care homes and the number of people currently in the UK who want to do that job.
Q1 Do we accept that in that scenario we have to bring in people from abroad to fill those roles. If not what is the alternative?
Q2 if we accept we have to import social care labor from overseas, what makes us think that there are sufficient people willing to come to this country to do this work leaving their partners and any children behind? If the reality on the ground is that the only way to get sufficient numbers to come is to allow them to bring close family, are we then forced to do so? What is the alternative?
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Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 12:16:41 GMT
Dappy, if you would like the thread moved to mind zone, let me know.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2023 12:19:24 GMT
It’s actually a reasonable question you ask. Let’s accept for now that there is a material gap between the need for people to care for elderly people in care homes and the number of people currently in the UK who want to do that job. Q1 Do we accept that in that scenario we have to bring in people from abroad to fill those roles. If not what is the alternative? Q2 if we accept we have to import social care labor from overseas, what makes us think that there are sufficient people willing to come to this country to do this work leaving their partners and any children behind? If the reality on the ground is that the only way to get sufficient numbers to come is to allow them to bring close family, are we then forced to do so? What is the alternative? We've got 1.45 million unemployed, I am sure not all of them are sick and disabled, if they aren't trained in the care sector, then maybe the government should put them on training courses, the solution is there right before our noses, why should we be drafting in migrant workers when we have 1.45 million hanging around doing nowt. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2023 12:30:21 GMT
If we can get currently unemployed people in the UK to do this work, I am totally cool with that. We know however that there are currently large vacancies already. That seems to be quite a challenge in the real world.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 24, 2023 16:58:23 GMT
It’s actually a reasonable question you ask. Let’s accept for now that there is a material gap between the need for people to care for elderly people in care homes and the number of people currently in the UK who want to do that job. Q1 Do we accept that in that scenario we have to bring in people from abroad to fill those roles. If not what is the alternative? Q2 if we accept we have to import social care labor from overseas, what makes us think that there are sufficient people willing to come to this country to do this work leaving their partners and any children behind? If the reality on the ground is that the only way to get sufficient numbers to come is to allow them to bring close family, are we then forced to do so? What is the alternative? We've got 1.45 million unemployed, I am sure not all of them are sick and disabled, if they aren't trained in the care sector, then maybe the government should put them on training courses, the solution is there right before our noses, why should we be drafting in migrant workers when we have 1.45 million hanging around doing nowt. It's worse than that - we have over 5 million on out of work benefits, with numbers like that the idea we need to import workers is someones idea of a bad joke. In our major regional cities 20 - 25% of people are out of work - in the 1980's if you had said that it didn't matter if a quarter of the people were on the dole then you would have been lynched by those on the Left. Now they go along with it as though it were the most normal thing in the world. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2023 17:06:28 GMT
25% are not on the dole of course.
If you can show me a way how to use these people to fill the vacancies in caring for our old people and provide a decent level of care, I would be very happy to do that rather than use imports. We need to do that without compromising those people in our society unable to work however.
Until then given that even with this level of immigration, there are still more care jobs available than people to fill them, it seems that we either have to accept the immigration or leave our elderly uncared for.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2023 17:10:36 GMT
We've got 1.45 million unemployed, I am sure not all of them are sick and disabled, if they aren't trained in the care sector, then maybe the government should put them on training courses, the solution is there right before our noses, why should we be drafting in migrant workers when we have 1.45 million hanging around doing nowt. It's worse than that - we have over 5 million on out of work benefits, with numbers like that the idea we need to import workers is someones idea of a bad joke. In our major regional cities 20 - 25% of people are out of work - in the 1980's if you had said that it didn't matter if a quarter of the people were on the dole then you would have been lynched by those on the Left. Now they go along with it as though it were the most normal thing in the world. Crikey I didn't realise it was that bad. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 24, 2023 17:13:10 GMT
Apart from students, the other big area of net immigration is work apparently mainly in health and social care. Caring especially for old people is surely a necessity. It is not a particularly well paid or pleasant job but we need it. People born in the UK however tend not to want to do those jobs. If those are genuine reflections of hard facts, what is the alternative to immigration? Care work is poorly paid and unpleasant. leftie solution….import cheap labour from abroad . Well done ! You couldn’t make up shit like this 🙄 |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 24, 2023 17:13:59 GMT
It's worse than that - we have over 5 million on out of work benefits, with numbers like that the idea we need to import workers is someones idea of a bad joke. In our major regional cities 20 - 25% of people are out of work - in the 1980's if you had said that it didn't matter if a quarter of the people were on the dole then you would have been lynched by those on the Left. Now they go along with it as though it were the most normal thing in the world. Crikey I didn't realise it was that bad. Which won't get better as AI takes more control. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 24, 2023 17:23:17 GMT
It's worse than that - we have over 5 million on out of work benefits, with numbers like that the idea we need to import workers is someones idea of a bad joke. In our major regional cities 20 - 25% of people are out of work - in the 1980's if you had said that it didn't matter if a quarter of the people were on the dole then you would have been lynched by those on the Left. Now they go along with it as though it were the most normal thing in the world. Crikey I didn't realise it was that bad. Yep - there are currently 5.5 million working-age people receiving out-of-work benefits, as well as 1.7 million economically inactive people – those who are out of work and either not looking for or available to start work – who say they want a job. Anyone who claims that we need immigration is gaslighting you. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 24, 2023 17:36:04 GMT
Crikey I didn't realise it was that bad. Yep - there are currently 5.5 million working-age people receiving out-of-work benefits, as well as 1.7 million economically inactive people – those who are out of work and either not looking for or available to start work – who say they want a job. Anyone who claims that we need immigration is gaslighting you. So the state forces people into specific professions? |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 24, 2023 17:41:24 GMT
It’s actually a reasonable question you ask. Let’s accept for now that there is a material gap between the need for people to care for elderly people in care homes and the number of people currently in the UK who want to do that job. Q1 Do we accept that in that scenario we have to bring in people from abroad to fill those roles. If not what is the alternative? Q2 if we accept we have to import social care labor from overseas, what makes us think that there are sufficient people willing to come to this country to do this work leaving their partners and any children behind? If the reality on the ground is that the only way to get sufficient numbers to come is to allow them to bring close family, are we then forced to do so? What is the alternative? 1 Increase salaries/wages until the positions are filled 2 If they will not come on their own they do not come. Bringing in families will add significant costs to the country. It would be easier, and cheaper, to adopt 1. |
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