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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 27, 2023 9:58:15 GMT
Zany appears to be rather over-solicitous concerning the welfare (housing especially) of people already here, on the grounds that they were invited to come and therefore we owe them.
Invited by whom?
I remember when I first moved to America and don't recall anyone except real estate agents being concerned about housing my family. Certainly there was never any sense of a general social obligation which Zany appears to believe we owe to Britain's 'invitees'.
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Post by dappy on Nov 27, 2023 10:15:59 GMT
I absolutely agree that it would be desirable if possible to find people already resident in the country to work in the Old People's care sector dealing with dementia and health issues including giving practical support - eg bottom cleaning. At present this seems to be very difficult to make happen evidenced by a significant number of vacancies in the sector even with the high immigration numbers.
Question though if I may for those who tend to be concerned with immigration numbers
In the interim period, while we work out how to source those UK residents to do the jobs and persuade them to do the work through whatever means, would you rather
a) Continued high immigration with families if necessary to get the people with elderly people getting looked after
or
b) End Immigration now accepting that elderly people may then not be able to get the support they need for (at least) an interim period.
Which is the more important priority in the short/medium term
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 27, 2023 10:39:31 GMT
I'd say b) is the preferred option. It would have the advantage of sending the message that people should take more responsibility for the care of their elderly relatives and not seek to foist the burden on society at large.
The countries where most foreign care workers originate operate on such a basis already.
It may mean foregoing one foreign holiday a year, or running a less expensive car, removing children from private school or even one spouse giving up his or her job. In other words a return to saner times when people looked after themselves and their own as a first priority over and above material goods.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 10:47:23 GMT
Zany appears to be rather over-solicitous concerning the welfare (housing especially) of people already here, on the grounds that they were invited to come and therefore we owe them. Invited by whom? I remember when I first moved to America and don't recall anyone except real estate agents being concerned about housing my family. Certainly there was never any sense of a general social obligation which Zany appears to believe we owe to Britain's 'invitees'. Not by the people that's for sure. Sadly, when dealing with a fanatic autocracy, which ignores the wishes of the people and lies to them, you're not going to get much sense out of those who sides against the people. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 10:48:05 GMT
I'd say b) is the preferred option. It would have the advantage of sending the message that people should take more responsibility for the care of their elderly relatives and not seek to foist the burden on society at large. The countries where most foreign care workers originate operate on such a basis already. It may mean foregoing one foreign holiday a year, or running a less expensive car, removing children from private school or even one spouse giving up his or her job. In other words a return to saner times when people looked after themselves and their own as a first priority over and above material goods. What about families struggling to make ends meet who can't afford to take time off of work to care for elderly relatives? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 10:51:18 GMT
I absolutely agree that it would be desirable if possible to find people already resident in the country to work in the Old People's care sector dealing with dementia and health issues including giving practical support - eg bottom cleaning. At present this seems to be very difficult to make happen evidenced by a significant number of vacancies in the sector even with the high immigration numbers. Question though if I may for those who tend to be concerned with immigration numbers In the interim period, while we work out how to source those UK residents to do the jobs and persuade them to do the work through whatever means, would you rather a) Continued high immigration with families if necessary to get the people with elderly people getting looked after or b) End Immigration now accepting that elderly people may then not be able to get the support they need for (at least) an interim period. Which is the more important priority in the short/medium term He seems to be pro-immigration because he wants somebody to wipe his arse. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 27, 2023 10:52:03 GMT
Generally the care of lower-income elderly remains the responsibility of the local authority. I'm talking about middle-class families who 'want it all' while still expecting the state to fund the care for their parents and grandparents.
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 10:54:07 GMT
I absolutely agree that it would be desirable if possible to find people already resident in the country to work in the Old People's care sector dealing with dementia and health issues including giving practical support - eg bottom cleaning. At present this seems to be very difficult to make happen evidenced by a significant number of vacancies in the sector even with the high immigration numbers. Question though if I may for those who tend to be concerned with immigration numbers In the interim period, while we work out how to source those UK residents to do the jobs and persuade them to do the work through whatever means, would you rather a) Continued high immigration with families if necessary to get the people with elderly people getting looked after or b) End Immigration now accepting that elderly people may then not be able to get the support they need for (at least) an interim period. Which is the more important priority in the short/medium term He seems to be pro-immigration because he wants somebody to wipe his arse. So it's stop immigration to look after our own. Unless our own are elderly people and their families dependent on immigrant care workers in which case fuck em? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 27, 2023 10:59:13 GMT
One of the jobs that HCAs do when they work in the wards is to clear up , piss, shit , puke , blood and wipe bottoms .
The resident lefties were quite keen for NHS workers to have a substantial wage rise yet seem to be reluctant for care workers to recurve the same .
They would rather import cheap foreign labour from abroad.
I wonder why ?
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 10:59:20 GMT
I'd say b) is the preferred option. It would have the advantage of sending the message that people should take more responsibility for the care of their elderly relatives and not seek to foist the burden on society at large. The countries where most foreign care workers originate operate on such a basis already. It may mean foregoing one foreign holiday a year, or running a less expensive car, removing children from private school or even one spouse giving up his or her job. In other words a return to saner times when people looked after themselves and their own as a first priority over and above material goods. What about families struggling to make ends meet who can't afford to take time off of work to care for elderly relatives? Now this is going to be annoying. Not being able to afford something is often a subjective outlook. I know a chap who 'could not afford' to pay his rent because he had to put Rasta locks back in his hair and families who 'could not afford' to pay the rent because the SKY package had to be paid. Back in the days when the Sky dish first came out there was a proliferation of dishes in the council estates well before any appeared in private estates. More than anecdotal that one, lived experience for many. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:01:13 GMT
One of the jobs that HCAs do when they work in the wards is to clear up , piss, shit , puke , blood and wipe bottoms . The resident lefties were quite keen for NHS workers to have a substantial wage rise yet seem to be reluctant for care workers to recurve the same . They would rather import cheap foreign labour from abroad. I wonder why ? I'm all for giving care workers a pay rise, the question is who is going to pay for it? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 27, 2023 11:02:47 GMT
One of the jobs that HCAs do when they work in the wards is to clear up , piss, shit , puke , blood and wipe bottoms . The resident lefties were quite keen for NHS workers to have a substantial wage rise yet seem to be reluctant for care workers to recurve the same . They would rather import cheap foreign labour from abroad. I wonder why ? I'm all for giving care workers a pay rise, the question is who is going to pay for it? Same people that would pay for the HCAs wage rise that so many supported . |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:03:02 GMT
What about families struggling to make ends meet who can't afford to take time off of work to care for elderly relatives? Now this is going to be annoying. Not being able to afford something is often a subjective outlook. I know a chap who 'could not afford' to pay his rent because he had to put Rasta locks back in his hair and families who 'could not afford' to pay the rent because the SKY package had to be paid. Back in the days when the Sky dish first came out there was a proliferation of dishes in the council estates well before any appeared in private estates. More than anecdotal that one, lived experience for many. Yes I've heard lots of these anecdotes, I can give you plenty of anecdotes about families who are genuinely struggling too. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 11:04:05 GMT
He seems to be pro-immigration because he wants somebody to wipe his arse. So it's stop immigration to look after our own. Unless our own are elderly people and their families dependent on immigrant care workers in which case fuck em? No if you cannot get the workers increase the wages, that has many knock on effects I know that are easily overcome with a bit of nous and effort but families have to either make an effort as well or pay. Been there done it, not a good time but part of life. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:04:48 GMT
I'm all for giving care workers a pay rise, the question is who is going to pay for it? Same people that would pay for the HCAs wage rise that so many supported . The tax payer then? So you support nurses and care workers getting a pay rise on the tax payer? |
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