|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 26, 2023 9:19:19 GMT
But in the case of agricultural workers, Dan would seem to have a point. Have you ever had any involvement with the sector ? I I spent years living in farmhouse B&Bs up and down the country while freelancing at various clients. All the farms i stayed at were either livestock or the sort of crops you harvest mechanically like oilseed rape but the conditions which i saw at neighbouring farms where crops needed manual picking left me in no doubt slavery is alive and well and flourishing in the 21st century. I don’t think low wages have anything at all to do with why farmers were delighted to exploit gangmaster-ruled workforces for crop harvesting. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 9:36:08 GMT
Have you ever had any involvement with the sector ? I I spent years living in farmhouse B&Bs up and down the country while freelancing at various clients. All the farms i stayed at were either livestock or the sort of crops you harvest mechanically like oilseed rape but the conditions which i saw at neighbouring farms where crops needed manual picking left me in no doubt slavery is alive and well and flourishing in the 21st century. I don’t think low wages have anything at all to do with why farmers were delighted to exploit gangmaster-ruled workforces for crop harvesting. Seems a bit harsh to tar all farmers with the same brush. Also if farmers are getting their workers via slavery, why are they now ploughing up our orchards. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 26, 2023 10:09:18 GMT
Seems a bit harsh to tar all farmers with the same brush. Also if farmers are getting their workers via slavery, why are they now ploughing up our orchards. Where exactly did I tar ALL farmers with the same brush zany? |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 11:25:34 GMT
Seems a bit harsh to tar all farmers with the same brush. Also if farmers are getting their workers via slavery, why are they now ploughing up our orchards. Where exactly did I tar ALL farmers with the same brush zany? You didn't mate. It was an observation on the implied idea that farmers don't have an issue because they use modern slavery. From my anecdotal evidence I can remember up until a few years ago taking my dog for a walk around the orchards and seeing tractors with trailers full of smiling Romanians waving as they headed back from the days picking. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 26, 2023 11:27:51 GMT
Where exactly did I tar ALL farmers with the same brush zany? You didn't mate. It was an observation on the implied idea that farmers don't have an issue because they use modern slavery. From my anecdotal evidence I can remember up until a few years ago taking my dog for a walk around the orchards and seeing tractors with trailers full of smiling Romanians waving as they headed back from the days picking. I think those days are long gone now zany. Mores the pity. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 26, 2023 11:44:50 GMT
Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. Why is it that the second generation of those who immigrated 'to do the jobs Brits do not want to do' seem to not want to do those jobs to a greater proportion than the Brits. What is the point of bringing in groups that have a higher rate of unwillingness to work. I think you will find the same phenomenon everywhere in the west that is a destination for migrant workers from the 'developing' world.
You certainly see it in California where menial occupations are overwhelmingly manned by first generation immigrants, some from Asia but most from Central and South America.
What typically happens is that the first generation are prepared to work like dogs and endure any privation and humiliation as long as they can stay and continue to earn. Whatever their experience it is a dramatic improvement on their life 'at home'.
But it all changes when it comes to the second and subsequent generations, who enter the educational system and get to learn about their rights as an American even if they aren't actually a citizen. These impressions are reinforced by well-meaning liberals who are eager to assist them in claiming their rights and in standing up to 'racism'. These immigrant offspring then often get to take on the worst traits of both their own and the host cultures, something that we see all across the west, and which is especially prominent in California with its Latino gang culture.
It's not going to go away.
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 11:48:10 GMT
You didn't mate. It was an observation on the implied idea that farmers don't have an issue because they use modern slavery. From my anecdotal evidence I can remember up until a few years ago taking my dog for a walk around the orchards and seeing tractors with trailers full of smiling Romanians waving as they headed back from the days picking. I think those days are long gone now zany. Mores the pity. It went with Brexit. Now those orchards are all just big ploughed fields, such a shame. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 26, 2023 11:56:08 GMT
Aesthetically it is a shame for those of us who just want to experience the countryside as an amenity and admire the ambiance but on the other hand it seems a sensible response to dramatically changed business conditions.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 12:05:11 GMT
I think those days are long gone now zany. Mores the pity. It went with Brexit. Now those orchards are all just big ploughed fields, such a shame. Most orchards were grubbed up, along with many hedgerows during our membership of the EEC and EU. If you lament the passing of orchards it may have ended with Brexit but it reached its heyday in the 70s and 80s. Worcester and Hereford in England have changed and the Clyde valley in Scotland. Le Crunch did for them all cheap and generally tasteless but I suppose that is supply and demand. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:08:30 GMT
Aesthetically it is a shame for those of us who just want to experience the countryside as an amenity and admire the ambiance but on the other hand it seems a sensible response to dramatically changed business conditions. An essential response. Was it worth it to stop a few thousand Poles earning some money here? |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:12:03 GMT
It went with Brexit. Now those orchards are all just big ploughed fields, such a shame. Most orchards were grubbed up, along with many hedgerows during our membership of the EEC and EU. If you lament the passing of orchards it may have ended with Brexit but it reached its heyday in the 70s and 80s. Worcester and Hereford in England have changed and the Clyde valley in Scotland. Le Crunch did for them all cheap and generally tasteless but I suppose that is supply and demand. Yep. The countryside of my golden age is long gone. Personally I would rather we bought more food from countries that can produce it cheaper and returned much of our woodland and pasture. I don't find this  To be England's green and pleasant land. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 12:16:07 GMT
Aesthetically it is a shame for those of us who just want to experience the countryside as an amenity and admire the ambiance but on the other hand it seems a sensible response to dramatically changed business conditions. An essential response. Was it worth it to stop a few thousand Poles earning some money here? Probably in the long term yes. All we have to do now is correct the ridiculous system of allowing migration that we have in place at the moment. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2023 12:20:03 GMT
Most orchards were grubbed up, along with many hedgerows during our membership of the EEC and EU. If you lament the passing of orchards it may have ended with Brexit but it reached its heyday in the 70s and 80s. Worcester and Hereford in England have changed and the Clyde valley in Scotland. Le Crunch did for them all cheap and generally tasteless but I suppose that is supply and demand. Yep. The countryside of my golden age is long gone. Personally I would rather we bought more food from countries that can produce it cheaper and returned much of our woodland and pasture. I don't find this To be England's green and pleasant land. The prairies of England are a result of CAP. Hedgerows were grubbed up all over the country to increase acreage and production to fill the grain bunkers to bursting point. The Green and pleasant land of hedgerows, sunken lanes and winding country roads were sacrificed to the EEC membership. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:21:39 GMT
An essential response. Was it worth it to stop a few thousand Poles earning some money here? Probably in the long term yes. All we have to do now is correct the ridiculous system of allowing migration that we have in place at the moment. I have never disagreed with that. The elephant no one will look at is how we meet the costs of removing cheap labour while wanting evermore services. You nor anyone else on here will even talk about that side of things. The phrase having your cake and eating it comes to mind. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2023 12:24:08 GMT
Yep. The countryside of my golden age is long gone. Personally I would rather we bought more food from countries that can produce it cheaper and returned much of our woodland and pasture. I don't find this To be England's green and pleasant land. The prairies of England are a result of CAP. Hedgerows were grubbed up all over the country to increase acreage and production to fill the grain bunkers to bursting point. The Green and pleasant land of hedgerows, sunken lanes and winding country roads were sacrificed to the EEC membership. Yes all to increase production and keep prices equivalent to those of countries with far more land. More of the same thing that makes imported cheap labour essential. But as always you refuse to tackle the other side of that equation. Just moan about the result. |
|
