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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2023 16:50:44 GMT
Sounds like a case for Luddites Anonymous.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 17:13:48 GMT
Sounds like a case for Luddites Anonymous. Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 17:17:17 GMT
Even if that's true that's in the long run. So in the short to medium term, which public services would you like to cut to pay for it. What do you say when people in other professions start demanding the state raise their salaries? The welfare benefits budget would be cut For some reason that point does not compute with him. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 17:21:47 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. My company regularly gets offered "Apprentices" from the job centre. As in people who have had 23 jobs and lost them all. We politely decline. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 17:31:08 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. My company regularly gets offered "Apprentices" from the job centre. As in people who have had 23 jobs and lost them all. We politely decline. Back in early 97 our company did the same. At the request of the Job Centre we interviewed half a dozen people with a block visit in the Chorley area. One took the job he and we tried our hardest but he was kind of highly strung and in the end could not cope and took too much time off. It can work but you have to be able to afford to get it wrong and in the end we were claiming for staff from the Logistics people so all could afford a bit of give and take. It is too much a risk I would have thought for any small business. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 25, 2023 17:42:07 GMT
The best apprentices are 16/ 17 year olds straight out of school.
Sandwich course or day release college for the duration .
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 17:46:18 GMT
My company regularly gets offered "Apprentices" from the job centre. As in people who have had 23 jobs and lost them all. We politely decline. Back in early 97 our company did the same. At the request of the Job Centre we interviewed half a dozen people with a block visit in the Chorley area. One took the job he and we tried our hardest but he was kind of highly strung and in the end could not cope and took too much time off. It can work but you have to be able to afford to get it wrong and in the end we were claiming for staff from the Logistics people so all could afford a bit of give and take. It is too much a risk I would have thought for any small business. I should have said. At the start we took on quite a few, but they are hopeless. They just let you down on a regular basis, so many excuses and usually they are completely flummoxed when you stop accepting them. I came to the conclusion that some people are just unemployable. Not really their fault, they just can't be reliable. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 17:55:10 GMT
Back in early 97 our company did the same. At the request of the Job Centre we interviewed half a dozen people with a block visit in the Chorley area. One took the job he and we tried our hardest but he was kind of highly strung and in the end could not cope and took too much time off. It can work but you have to be able to afford to get it wrong and in the end we were claiming for staff from the Logistics people so all could afford a bit of give and take. It is too much a risk I would have thought for any small business. I should have said. At the start we took on quite a few, but they are hopeless. They just let you down on a regular basis, so many excuses and usually they are completely flummoxed when you stop accepting them. I came to the conclusion that some people are just unemployable. Not really their fault, they just can't be reliable. Is that not what Jordan Petersen said, that the US army have a lower IQ of acceptance which excludes about ten percent of the population. Below this level the US army believe that people find it difficult at best to understand simple instructions and are therefor not suitable for the army. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 19:18:15 GMT
I should have said. At the start we took on quite a few, but they are hopeless. They just let you down on a regular basis, so many excuses and usually they are completely flummoxed when you stop accepting them. I came to the conclusion that some people are just unemployable. Not really their fault, they just can't be reliable. Is that not what Jordan Petersen said, that the US army have a lower IQ of acceptance which excludes about ten percent of the population. Below this level the US army believe that people find it difficult at best to understand simple instructions and are therefor not suitable for the army. I guess, though this is different to IQ, its more an inability to control ones life. They seem to slip from crises to crises endlessly. Advice is never heeded and issues never confronted. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 25, 2023 21:59:52 GMT
Sounds like a case for Luddites Anonymous. Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. But in the case of agricultural workers, Dan would seem to have a point. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 22:38:18 GMT
Sounds like a case for Luddites Anonymous. Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. Why is it that the second generation of those who immigrated 'to do the jobs Brits do not want to do' seem to not want to do those jobs to a greater proportion than the Brits. What is the point of bringing in groups that have a higher rate of unwillingness to work. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 22:41:34 GMT
Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. But in the case of agricultural workers, Dan would seem to have a point. Well kind of. The apple and pear orchards that were all around my home have gone. No machine to pick fruit so now they are all maize. Does that matter, you tell me. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 22:42:38 GMT
Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. Why is it that the second generation of those who immigrated 'to do the jobs Brits do not want to do' seem to not want to do those jobs to a greater proportion than the Brits. What is the point of bringing in groups that have a higher rate of unwillingness to work. Interesting point. Any suggestions as to why? Assuming its true. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 25, 2023 22:48:15 GMT
Apart from students, the other big area of net immigration is work apparently mainly in health and social care. Caring especially for old people is surely a necessity. It is not a particularly well paid or pleasant job but we need it. People born in the UK however tend not to want to do those jobs. If those are genuine reflections of hard facts, what is the alternative to immigration? Well, if Cummings is to be believed, a dose of Covid was Boris’ solution to the ageing population. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 26, 2023 9:08:20 GMT
Not at all. I support technology and that does mean machines replacing jobs people did. Its just that selling it as an alternative to immigration is not a simple cure. That said it is a way of filling some jobs Brits don't want to do. And it would make being on benefits the norm. Win win. But in the case of agricultural workers, Dan would seem to have a point. Have you ever had any involvement with the sector ? I I spent years living in farmhouse B&Bs up and down the country while freelancing at various clients. All the farms i stayed at were either livestock or the sort of crops you harvest mechanically like oilseed rape but the conditions which i saw at neighbouring farms where crops needed manual picking left me in no doubt slavery is alive and well and flourishing in the 21st century. I don’t think low wages have anything at all to do with why farmers were delighted to exploit gangmaster-ruled workforces for crop harvesting. |
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