|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Nov 25, 2023 9:15:05 GMT
What convention or law dictates that a country has to take in as many asylum seekers/migrants that want to come, there reaches a point like now where it is clear we can't take any more in, the clue being we are having to stick them in hotels and makeshift army barracks, if some pencil neck looks at the small print they will see Sunak/government has emergency powers already there at their disposal to stop this utter fiasco.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 10:02:15 GMT
I am not sure how you arrive at that conclusion it may add to the welfare burden in the short term as I said could be alleviated but is likely to reduce the welfare burden in teh long term as people come off benefits and dependants of low paid migrants are not here claiming all the in work benefits, family allowance and health care. But the British tax payer will be landed with the bill for elderly people turfed out of care homes they can't afford, people who had to give up work to care for elderly relatives when they couldn't afford care for them, this will be a continuous problem too. Not to mention the businesses folding and jobs lost from care homes closed down and knock on effect to subcontractors and suppliers. Economic migrants tend to be younger working age people less likely to need healthcare and more likely to be paying into the tax pot. As I keep pointing out we are dealing with principles at the moment I am sure there would be much detail but the whole point is it is better to get a home grown British citizen back into work than to allow that job to go to a migrant with family for whom we have to give financial support. That is the essence of the discussion. I would have thought if one can make that happen it is a sound principle. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 14:47:49 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense.
For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity.
The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field.
We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 25, 2023 15:47:26 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. Yet more nonsense from sid the fiddle. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 25, 2023 16:06:38 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. I know not what employment you are/were engaged in but there must be a balance point in terms of remuneration and satisfaction whereby you say, it is not worth it. I do not think think anyone actually wants to clean toilets as a living but will do if the pay is right or if they cannot get any other job. So pay is very important to encourage people into certain jobs. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 25, 2023 16:18:16 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. I know not what employment you are/were engaged in but there must be a balance point in terms of remuneration and satisfaction whereby you say, it is not worth it. I do not think think anyone actually wants to clean toilets as a living but will do if the pay is right or if they cannot get any other job. So pay is very important to encourage people into certain jobs. Let's hope the new rules about job seekers allowance will get some of our own lazy ring pieces off their fat arses Sandy. |
|
|
|
Post by Ripley on Nov 25, 2023 16:25:42 GMT
A paraplegic friend of mine told me that in his quite vast experience of carers, there is no comparison between the locals and the foreigners. The foreigners, he said, were not only more reliable and willing to do the work, they also were kinder to him and more pleasant to be around.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 25, 2023 16:30:11 GMT
Using basic mathematics when it comes to (1) the number of people unemployed, matched to (2) the number of job vaccancies, is not a solution that works, in fact it is a nonsense. For a start off, no Carehome owner or manager would ever take a reluctant worker, or someone who simply does not want to work in the care sector. Same with a farmer, grower or producer, the best workers are those who want to work in a particular job, or feel comfortable in a particular job, and its all about productivity. The posters here of The loony Right believe (wrongly) that you can MAKE or FORCE someone into a particular job, they cannot grasp the fact that most Brits dont want to wipe elderly peoples arses, or pick vegetables in a field. We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. You live in a world where ordinary people think that they are too grand to work hard or dirty ...the world in your head . HCAs wipe arses , clean up shit, piss and blood too. HCAs are paid better than residential care workers and less pushed than domiciliary care workers . They have more opportunities to train and progress . Give that to care workers and more people will apply for the job . If we need migrant labour to pick vegetables then let it be temporary . |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Nov 25, 2023 16:34:03 GMT
In the long run the same people who pay for the care and benefits given to families of those allowed to come in on minimum wage. Once you take into consideration tax allowances, in work benefits, healthcare, child allowance etc and not least the saving on out of work benefits saved for those UK citizens taking the jobs it is a win win. So the taxpayer then? The taxpayer currently funds those idlers on fortunes of out of work handouts ,stop them claiming and force them to work at normal job rates and contribute to the national pot instead. Stop them being takers from the taxpayer , make them contribute |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 25, 2023 16:34:08 GMT
A paraplegic friend of mine told me that in his quite vast experience of carers, there is no comparison between the locals and the foreigners. The foreigners, he said, were not only more reliable and willing to do the work, they also were kinder to him and more pleasant to be around. Some of the most agreeable people I’ve worked with were female East Europeans . They were also some of the biggest bitches . |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2023 16:34:10 GMT
... We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. There is another solution, one which has been employed to great effect in many other business sectors.
That is to substitute capital for labour.
In the agricultural sector that entails using machinery instead of labour.
Here in the south of France, the largest contiguous wine-producing area on earth, until around 30 years ago grape harvesting was done by hand using gangs of labourers from the Maghreb and Eastern Europe. These days practically 100% of grapes are harvested by machine and entire new industry has grown up to develop and provide the mechanical harvesters. You never see handpickers these days except for a few very high-end domaines.
Just as for grapes, so it is for cabbages. This is a cabbage harvesting system produced by a company in Belgium. Simple but effective. Three workers can pick and sort several acres of cabbages in a day. No need for squads of coolies from Tajikistan.
|
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Nov 25, 2023 16:36:03 GMT
You are not following, it effectively pays for itself as you have saved a greater cost down the road. How one organises it is of course detail but it is a saving in the long run and avoids the immigration ponzi scheme. Even if that's true that's in the long run. So in the short to medium term, which public services would you like to cut to pay for it. What do you say when people in other professions start demanding the state raise their salaries? The welfare benefits budget would be cut |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 16:40:26 GMT
... We will have to either continue employing migrant labour, just as we have done since the Industrial Revolution, or we simply stop growing and producing much of our own food, and instead import it. There is another solution, one which has been employed to great effect in many other business sectors.
That is to substitute capital for labour.
In the agricultural sector that entails using machinery instead of labour.
Here in the south of France, the largest contiguous wine-producing area on earth, until around 30 years ago grape harvesting was done by hand using gangs of labourers from the Maghreb and Eastern Europe. These days practically 100% of grapes are harvested by machine and entire new industry has grown up to develop and provide the mechanical harvesters. You never see handpickers these days except for a few very high-end domaines.
Just as for grapes, so it is for cabbages. This is a cabbage harvesting system produced by a company in Belgium. Simple but effective. Three workers can pick and sort several acres of cabbages in a day. No need for squads of coolies from Tajikistan.
And your new care worker.   |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2023 16:42:26 GMT
Does it come in black or brown too?
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 25, 2023 16:46:57 GMT
Does it come in black or brown too? I expect so.  Trouble with relying on automation is that its happening already and its not fussy who's jobs it replaces. In fact the more expensive the wage the better the return on redundancy. |
|
