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Post by buccaneer on Nov 27, 2023 11:05:41 GMT
Too many people to produce food cheap enough for the high demand for food - so we urgently need more people? Still having trouble here. My view is that problem is staring us in the face - we have millions of working age people who are labelled 'economically inactive' We have millions more who are not officially labelled economically inactive, but in all real economic terms are actually inactive. The current apparently paradoxically situation is a symptom of this bad organisation. You are struggling you poor thing. Not enough people wiling to produce the food cheap enough. We need cheap people or we need to buy food from other countries who use cheap labour. Yes all those economically inactive people, like my mate who stopped work at 48 after he became a millionaire. I'm sure he's up for picking turnips. No we don't. The public if they so choose can pay a higher rate for British grown food to sustain wage levels in the country, or can choose to purchase cheaper variations of food from abroad. There are many middle-class people in the UK who would be willing to buy British even if it was slightly more expensive. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:05:59 GMT
So it's stop immigration to look after our own. Unless our own are elderly people and their families dependent on immigrant care workers in which case fuck em? No if you cannot get the workers increase the wages, that has many knock on effects I know that are easily overcome with a bit of nous and effort but families have to either make an effort as well or pay. Been there done it, not a good time but part of life. What about families that can't pay? What about employers that can't afford it and go under, what happens to their residents? |
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Post by Orac on Nov 27, 2023 11:06:08 GMT
Zany appears to be rather over-solicitous concerning the welfare (housing especially) of people already here, on the grounds that they were invited to come and therefore we owe them. Which itself acts as a further invitation |
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Post by Orac on Nov 27, 2023 11:09:11 GMT
Funny that people, who have no concern whatsoever about raising the taxation level to pay public 'workers' to do effectively nothing, are suddenly 'tearing their hair out' at the prospect of people being paid to produce food.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 11:09:35 GMT
Now this is going to be annoying. Not being able to afford something is often a subjective outlook. I know a chap who 'could not afford' to pay his rent because he had to put Rasta locks back in his hair and families who 'could not afford' to pay the rent because the SKY package had to be paid. Back in the days when the Sky dish first came out there was a proliferation of dishes in the council estates well before any appeared in private estates. More than anecdotal that one, lived experience for many. Yes I've heard lots of these anecdotes, I can give you plenty of anecdotes about families who are genuinely struggling too. It does mean that affording something is subjective. One can often afford many things but have to go without. My kids had a b and w tele growing up in the 70s and 80s whilest many of their 'poorer' mates had colour teles and videos but lived on burgers and alphabetti spaghetti. My children had good food were well fed and warmly dressed and cared for but they did not have a colour tele nor Hi fidelity sound systems. These are life's choices. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 11:11:30 GMT
Same people that would pay for the HCAs wage rise that so many supported . The tax payer then? So you support nurses and care workers getting a pay rise on the tax payer? The tax payer always pays, what you have to do is make sure what he is paying for is sustainable, good for the country and good for the tax payer |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:11:40 GMT
Yes I've heard lots of these anecdotes, I can give you plenty of anecdotes about families who are genuinely struggling too. It does mean that affording something is subjective. One can often afford many things but have to go without. My kids had a b and w tele growing up in the 70s and 80s whilest many of their 'poorer' mates had colour teles and videos but lived on burgers and alphabetti spaghetti. My children had good food were well fed and warmly dressed and cared for but they did not have a colour tele nor Hi fidelity sound systems. These are life's choices. The families that I've delivered food parcels to didn't have hi fidelity sound systems. So much for looking after our own. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 27, 2023 11:14:04 GMT
Same people that would pay for the HCAs wage rise that so many supported . The tax payer then? So you support nurses and care workers getting a pay rise on the tax payer? Go back and read the original post . |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:14:12 GMT
The tax payer then? So you support nurses and care workers getting a pay rise on the tax payer? The tax payer always pays, what you have to do is make sure what he is paying for is sustainable, good for the country and good for the tax payer Is it good for the tax payer if it means elderly people being left without care or families struggling because someone has to give up work to care for elderly realtives or businesses close down? It often seems to me that people who say we should stop immigration to look after our own seem remarkably callous about suffering inflicted on our own. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 11:14:33 GMT
No if you cannot get the workers increase the wages, that has many knock on effects I know that are easily overcome with a bit of nous and effort but families have to either make an effort as well or pay. Been there done it, not a good time but part of life. What about families that can't pay? What about employers that can't afford it and go under, what happens to their residents? I have not said remove the safety net, what I am saying is that net is there to catch those who have fallen and not those who deliberately throw themselves from the high wire. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2023 11:17:39 GMT
The tax payer always pays, what you have to do is make sure what he is paying for is sustainable, good for the country and good for the tax payer Is it good for the tax payer if it means elderly people being left without care or families struggling because someone has to give up work to care for elderly realtives or businesses close down? It often seems to me that people who say we should stop immigration to look after our own seem remarkably callous about suffering inflicted on our own. I have not said that you need to address that to Dan. All I have said is that there is a better method that eternal migration that teh wit of man is perfectly capable of organising effectively. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 27, 2023 11:20:17 GMT
I think most people would be supportive of better pay for nurses provided it was funded by economies made elsewhere.
In the NHS, for example, the entire EDI apparatus could be disbanded and nobody would miss it. Similarly for the great majority of public authorities.
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 27, 2023 11:22:45 GMT
Is it good for the tax payer if it means elderly people being left without care or families struggling because someone has to give up work to care for elderly realtives or businesses close down? It often seems to me that people who say we should stop immigration to look after our own seem remarkably callous about suffering inflicted on our own. I have not said that you need to address that to Dan. All I have said is that there is a better method that eternal migration that teh wit of man is perfectly capable of organising effectively. Immigration is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, it is also a complex issue and I'm always wary of people selling simple solutions to complex problems. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 27, 2023 11:24:01 GMT
The tax payer then? So you support nurses and care workers getting a pay rise on the tax payer? The tax payer always pays, what you have to do is make sure what he is paying for is sustainable, good for the country and good for the tax payer The point I was trying to make before someone tried to reinterpret it was that the same people that want a wage rise for HCAs (that wipe peoples bottoms , clear up shit , piss and blood ) do not want the same for care workers who wipe old peoples bottoms ,clear up shit , piss and blood . They want to import cheap labour instead . Care workers are the equivalent of NHS workers and should be treated as such . |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 27, 2023 11:24:33 GMT
The tax payer always pays, what you have to do is make sure what he is paying for is sustainable, good for the country and good for the tax payer Is it good for the tax payer if it means elderly people being left without care or families struggling because someone has to give up work to care for elderly realtives or businesses close down? It often seems to me that people who say we should stop immigration to look after our own seem remarkably callous about suffering inflicted on our own. The lefty councils are given a 'healthy budget' for care, the fact that elderly are being left with inadequate care is down to the council who are mismanaging funds.
Here's a prime example
Labour-run Birmingham City Council is under fire after £11M probe over eye-watering payments made to taxi firm charging more than £200 a day to take a child three miles to school and back
Is it any wonder they are going bust and can't cover the cost of care for the elderly, you need to blame the incompetence or fraud of the Labour run councils for 'remarkably callous suffering they inflicting on our elderly'.
EXCLUSIVE: Birmingham Council accused of overpaying taxi firms by £14m
Green Destinations charged £11m more than rivals for comparable levels of work
I wonder what council members family have the taxi contracts.
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