|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 15:40:38 GMT
I don't see how how such observations would clarify the motives exhaustively. They would just be a plain description of the crime. What detective work? He was conscious when arrested, wasn't he? Why assume he wasn't more than happy to explain his motives. Most lunatics are. And can you explain why it is necessary to release information about his identity at a time when mobs are roaming the streets and the risk of revenge attacks against innocent members of the same ethnic group are high? It would be more reasonable to wait until tensions have died down, wouldn't it? After all, there's no immediate need to release that information, is there? The police can and should act to ensure that more innocents are not injured. Asking a perpetrator his motives seems to me a bit of unreliable way to obtain them. I didn't say that it was necessary. However, I do note what seems to be an ethnic pattern in policy. For instance, your public order argument doesn't seem to hold much sway with the media or the police if (say) a white policemen is involved in a black person's death - in those circumstances, details of the blackness and whiteness of all involved are immediately transmitted and publicised. Perhaps, in future, details of a policeman's whiteness should be withheld to avoid revenge attacks on white people? |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 24, 2023 16:07:02 GMT
It seems the same people are critisising the Irish police for announcing too much about the perpetrator and his motives and too little . All to fit in within the posters agenda. Whenever an incident happens it is always best to wait a little while to understand what has actually happened . Stops people looking very silly. There is only one agenda at play, dappy.
The one where a make believe "Far right" are blamed for a real societal issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 16:29:40 GMT
What detective work? He was conscious when arrested, wasn't he? Why assume he wasn't more than happy to explain his motives. Most lunatics are. And can you explain why it is necessary to release information about his identity at a time when mobs are roaming the streets and the risk of revenge attacks against innocent members of the same ethnic group are high? It would be more reasonable to wait until tensions have died down, wouldn't it? After all, there's no immediate need to release that information, is there? The police can and should act to ensure that more innocents are not injured. Asking a perpetrator his motives seems to me a bit of unreliable way to obtain them. I didn't say that it was necessary. However, I do note what seems to be an ethnic pattern in policy. For instance, your public order argument doesn't seem to hold much sway with the media or the police if (say) a white policemen is involved in a black person's death - in those circumstances, details of the blackness and whiteness of all involved are immediately transmitted and publicised. Perhaps, in future, details of a policeman's whiteness should be withheld to avoid revenge attacks on white people? What does that have to do with anything? Mobs were roaming the streets of Dublin. If the police had revealed that he was Algerian or Muslim, innocent Algerians and Muslims would have been made to take the brunt of their anger. No reasonable person would say that the police should have considered that white police officers were identified elsewhere when attacks have occurred. That's beyond childish. What would that look like, anyway? Can you imagine a group of senior police officers sat around a conference table, deciding what information should be released? They are about to decide that it would be irresponsible and positively dangerous to innocent members of the public to reveal the attacker's ethnicity when one of them pipes up that the right thing to do might be to reveal his identity because white police officers on a different continent have been identified in the past. You live in one messed-up, Kafkaesque world, Mags. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Nov 24, 2023 16:40:42 GMT
What was the name of the suspect?
Nationality?
Religion?
And where is the evidence that this wasn't terrorism?
Why aren't these details in the public domain?
If a white Irish catholic had done this, the Police would have said so.
They're afraid of racial tensions and instead of nipping it in the bud, they've made matters worse and there's been a race riot, because, everyone knows it wasn't a white Irish Catholic who did it.
Nip it in the bud, name the person, give the details the public are after.
And state quite honestly, this person was a lone wolf.
They do not represent the rest of the x nationality x religion or x named people and they certainly don't represent the rest of those with the same colour skin.
Nothing has been announced about the perpetrator, an atmosphere of distrust is building and they're not doing anything to stop that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 16:45:47 GMT
What was the name of the suspect? Nationality? Religion? And where is the evidence that this wasn't terrorism? Why aren't these details in the public domain? If a white Irish catholic had done this, the Police would have said so. They're afraid of racial tensions and instead of nipping it in the bud, they've made matters worse and there's been a race riot, because, everyone knows it wasn't a white Irish Catholic who did it. Nip it in the bud, name the person, give the details the public are after. And state quite honestly, this person was a lone wolf. They do not represent the rest of the x nationality x religion or x named people and they certainly don't represent the rest of those with the same colour skin. Nothing has been announced about the perpetrator, an atmosphere of distrust is building and they're not doing anything to stop that. Details have been retained for reasons that should be obvious to a five-year-old. Nobody is going to endanger innocent lives to gratify your curiosity, Iggy. Details will be released when the danger to innocent lives has passed. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 16:49:27 GMT
Asking a perpetrator his motives seems to me a bit of unreliable way to obtain them. I didn't say that it was necessary. However, I do note what seems to be an ethnic pattern in policy. For instance, your public order argument doesn't seem to hold much sway with the media or the police if (say) a white policemen is involved in a black person's death - in those circumstances, details of the blackness and whiteness of all involved are immediately transmitted and publicised. Perhaps, in future, details of a policeman's whiteness should be withheld to avoid revenge attacks on white people? What does that have to do with anything? Mobs were roaming the streets of Dublin. If the police had revealed that he was Algerian or Muslim, innocent Algerians and Muslims would have been made to take the brunt of their anger. No reasonable person would say that the police should have considered that white police officers were identified elsewhere when attacks have occurred. That's beyond childish. What would that look like, anyway? Can you imagine a group of senior police officers sat around a conference table, deciding what information should be released? They are about to decide that it would be irresponsible and positively dangerous to innocent members of the public to reveal the attacker's ethnicity when one of them pipes up that the right thing to do might be to reveal his identity because white police officers on a different continent have been identified in the past. You live in one messed-up, Kafkaesque world, Mags. It's hard to even pick out what your precise point is here. The parallel i draw is quite simple. Should the police withhold the ethnicity of a white policeman who is involved in death of a black person on the grounds that revealing he is white may cause riots or revenge attacks? - ie using the same argument you present. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 16:52:44 GMT
What does that have to do with anything? Mobs were roaming the streets of Dublin. If the police had revealed that he was Algerian or Muslim, innocent Algerians and Muslims would have been made to take the brunt of their anger. No reasonable person would say that the police should have considered that white police officers were identified elsewhere when attacks have occurred. That's beyond childish. What would that look like, anyway? Can you imagine a group of senior police officers sat around a conference table, deciding what information should be released? They are about to decide that it would be irresponsible and positively dangerous to innocent members of the public to reveal the attacker's ethnicity when one of them pipes up that the right thing to do might be to reveal his identity because white police officers on a different continent have been identified in the past. You live in one messed-up, Kafkaesque world, Mags. It's hard to even pick out what your precise point is here. The parallel i draw is quite simple. Should the police withhold the ethnicity of a white policeman who is involved in death of a black person on the grounds that revealing he is white may cause riots or revenge attacks? - ie using the same argument you present. Suppose you were present at the conference of senior police personnel when the decision on what information should be released was being made. Suppose you had suggested that it is appropriate to endanger innocent lives because innocent lives were endangered on a different continent several years ago. What do you think would have happened, Mags? I'm quite sure that you'd have been laughed out of the room. The idea is beyond childish. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Nov 24, 2023 16:58:07 GMT
I guess what has happened in Ireland is because people have voiced their opinion for years and nobody listened, now it has turned up on the streets, which realistically was always going to happen, meanwhile the Left and Right will blame each other, a little ridiculous really.
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 17:04:51 GMT
I guess what has happened in Ireland is because people have voiced their opinion for years and nobody listened, now it has turned up on the streets, which realistically was always going to happen, meanwhile the Left and Right will blame each other, a little ridiculous really. What opinion have people been voicing for years, Sheeps? That in an ideal world they would be able to throw a brick through a window and walk away with any sound system they want? |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 24, 2023 17:05:45 GMT
What was the name of the suspect? Nationality? Religion? And where is the evidence that this wasn't terrorism? Why aren't these details in the public domain? If a white Irish catholic had done this, the Police would have said so. They're afraid of racial tensions and instead of nipping it in the bud, they've made matters worse and there's been a race riot, because, everyone knows it wasn't a white Irish Catholic who did it. Nip it in the bud, name the person, give the details the public are after. And state quite honestly, this person was a lone wolf. They do not represent the rest of the x nationality x religion or x named people and they certainly don't represent the rest of those with the same colour skin. Nothing has been announced about the perpetrator, an atmosphere of distrust is building and they're not doing anything to stop that. Yep, reflects this (which just popped up on social media):
|
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Nov 24, 2023 17:12:22 GMT
I guess what has happened in Ireland is because people have voiced their opinion for years and nobody listened, now it has turned up on the streets, which realistically was always going to happen, meanwhile the Left and Right will blame each other, a little ridiculous really. What opinion have people been voicing for years, Sheeps? That in an ideal world they would be able to throw a brick through a window and walk away with any sound system they want? I guess it must be the same when we had riots in this country with Black people saying they were ignored, they rioted burnt and looted. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 17:14:00 GMT
What opinion have people been voicing for years, Sheeps? That in an ideal world they would be able to throw a brick through a window and walk away with any sound system they want? I guess it must be the same when we had riots in this country with Black people saying they were ignored, they rioted burnt and looted. Well, that's okay, then. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Nov 24, 2023 17:16:21 GMT
I guess it must be the same when we had riots in this country with Black people saying they were ignored, they rioted burnt and looted. Well, that's okay, then. Just pointing out, this is what happens when you are your own agenda based and sod everything else until it becomes a crisis, politicians do it constantly. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 24, 2023 17:17:41 GMT
Just pointing out, this is what happens when you are your own agenda based and sod everything else until it becomes a crisis, politicians do it constantly. Okey-dokey. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 17:21:14 GMT
It's hard to even pick out what your precise point is here. The parallel i draw is quite simple. Should the police withhold the ethnicity of a white policeman who is involved in death of a black person on the grounds that revealing he is white may cause riots or revenge attacks? - ie using the same argument you present. Suppose you were present at the conference of senior police personnel when the decision on what information should be released was being made. Suppose you had suggested that it is appropriate to endanger innocent lives because innocent lives were endangered on a different continent several years ago. I made no mention of people on different continents. Let me rephrase the question slightly - Should the police withhold the ethnicity of a white policeman who is involved in death of a black person on the grounds that revealing he is white may cause riots or revenge attacks? - ie using the same argument you present. (assuming everyone involved is on the same continent) |
|
