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Post by oracle75 on Nov 23, 2023 19:19:50 GMT
Except there's something to be said for being a part of the club that MAKES those rules. Yes that is probably true, however being in a group that makes rules that generally work against one's best interests (and the Tories and Labour both agreed in 2015 that the EU was not working in Britain's best interests) seems at best idiotic. In terms of migration, the UK had a deal with the EU...in its own interest. It no longer exists. Ironically the huge outcry about immigration that fuelled Brexit has resulted in a far worse situation due to the result of the referendum. You jettisoned lifelines that already existed. But you knew what you were voting for. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 24, 2023 7:40:20 GMT
Yes that is probably true, however being in a group that makes rules that generally work against one's best interests (and the Tories and Labour both agreed in 2015 that the EU was not working in Britain's best interests) seems at best idiotic. In terms of migration, the UK had a deal with the EU...in its own interest. It no longer exists. open borders is in nobodys interest. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 24, 2023 10:35:18 GMT
Shouldn't let so many across the EU.
They would be wise to scrap Schengen and reinstate border controls.
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 24, 2023 15:41:43 GMT
Shouldn't let so many across the EU. They would be wise to scrap Schengen and reinstate border controls. If a person is on a piece of land anywhere in the world, has no identity, address or provable history and has broken no laws THERE IS NO PROCESS TO "DEAL" WITH THEM. On what grounds can you arrest them, and on what charge? And what are you going to do with them if you dont know where they come from or if you do know, that country wont allow them back? And if the migrants left due to inhumane treatment, it is illegal to return them to the cause of their leaving. It is called "refoulement" and is a central plank in the UN human rights legislation and is illegal. So Vinny, how is "more borders" going to do anything except create miles and miles of holding pens across Europe? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 24, 2023 15:57:22 GMT
Yes that is probably true, however being in a group that makes rules that generally work against one's best interests (and the Tories and Labour both agreed in 2015 that the EU was not working in Britain's best interests) seems at best idiotic. In terms of migration, the UK had a deal with the EU...in its own interest. It no longer exists. Ironically the huge outcry about immigration that fuelled Brexit has resulted in a far worse situation due to the result of the referendum. You jettisoned lifelines that already existed. But you knew what you were voting for. Don't be so epically bloody dim. The current immigration debacle has nothing to do with Brexit. It has everything to do with weak minority appeasing pro EU politicians. The UK is no longer governed from Brussels and the government could if they had any balls stop the illegal invasion from the EU. Sadly politicians are more interested in appeasing the EU than listening to their own voters. Such arrogance has been good news for Geert Wilders, hopefully it will be good news for Richard Tice. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 24, 2023 16:16:21 GMT
In terms of migration, the UK had a deal with the EU...in its own interest. It no longer exists. Ironically the huge outcry about immigration that fuelled Brexit has resulted in a far worse situation due to the result of the referendum. You jettisoned lifelines that already existed. But you knew what you were voting for. Don't be so epically bloody dim. The current immigration debacle has nothing to do with Brexit. It has everything to do with weak minority appeasing pro EU politicians. The UK is no longer governed from Brussels and the government could if they had any balls stop the illegal invasion from the EU. Sadly politicians are more interested in appeasing the EU than listening to their own voters. Such arrogance has been good news for Geert Wilders, hopefully it will be good news for Richard Tice. So what would you do that Braverman hasnt tried ? Instead of throwing snowballs, what would you ACTUALLY do to legally halt illegal immigration? I dont reply to conspiracy theories, in the same way that i dont believe in santa clause. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 24, 2023 16:54:10 GMT
Don't be so epically bloody dim. The current immigration debacle has nothing to do with Brexit. It has everything to do with weak minority appeasing pro EU politicians. The UK is no longer governed from Brussels and the government could if they had any balls stop the illegal invasion from the EU. Sadly politicians are more interested in appeasing the EU than listening to their own voters. Such arrogance has been good news for Geert Wilders, hopefully it will be good news for Richard Tice. So what would you do that Braverman hasnt tried ? Instead of throwing snowballs, what would you ACTUALLY do to legally halt illegal immigration? I dont reply to conspiracy theories, in the same way that i dont believe in santa clause.
1. Immediately withdraw from the ECHR. 2. Ignore the ECtHR. 3. Implement international law via the UN if necessary. [UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) clearly states that any country with a sea border (Contiguous zone) may excercise controls necessary to prevent infringement of its customs and immigration laws]. 4. The government should be kicking up merry hell with the poxy EU who return boats to Libya but ignore boats that cross the channel. 5. The government should encourage a hostile atmosphere for illegals, no accommodation other than very basic huts and tents behind razor wire fences, very basic food, no free mobile phones and no pocket money. 6. Charities who coach illegals and advise them to destroy ID should lose their charitable status and CEO's should be prosecuted. If it were not for left wing/centrist pro EU politicians the above points could quite legally have been implemented years ago. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 24, 2023 17:11:23 GMT
Shouldn't let so many across the EU. They would be wise to scrap Schengen and reinstate border controls. If a person is on a piece of land anywhere in the world, has no identity, address or provable history and has broken no laws THERE IS NO PROCESS TO "DEAL" WITH THEM. On what grounds can you arrest them, and on what charge? And what are you going to do with them if you dont know where they come from or if you do know, that country wont allow them back? And if the migrants left due to inhumane treatment, it is illegal to return them to the cause of their leaving. It is called "refoulement" and is a central plank in the UN human rights legislation and is illegal. So Vinny, how is "more borders" going to do anything except create miles and miles of holding pens across Europe? In France if they have no ID they can be arrested until such times as they can show ID or prove their right to be in France. If the country will not allow them back they can be held indefinitely, if they left due to ill treatment they can be returned unless they claim asylum in which case they are French (EU) problem. Holding pens are better than mass illegal migration and will stop the exodus from Africa and make it easier to assess all the cases. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 25, 2023 7:59:31 GMT
If a person is on a piece of land anywhere in the world, has no identity, address or provable history and has broken no laws THERE IS NO PROCESS TO "DEAL" WITH THEM. On what grounds can you arrest them, and on what charge? And what are you going to do with them if you dont know where they come from or if you do know, that country wont allow them back? And if the migrants left due to inhumane treatment, it is illegal to return them to the cause of their leaving. It is called "refoulement" and is a central plank in the UN human rights legislation and is illegal. So Vinny, how is "more borders" going to do anything except create miles and miles of holding pens across Europe? In France if they have no ID they can be arrested until such times as they can show ID or prove their right to be in France. If the country will not allow them back they can be held indefinitely, if they left due to ill treatment they can be returned unless they claim asylum in which case they are French (EU) problem. Holding pens are better than mass illegal migration and will stop the exodus from Africa and make it easier to assess all the cases. If they have no ID and commit no crime, on what grounds can you arrest them ? Their human rights protect them from being arrested for committing no crime No judge can support what is an illegal arrest. You cant just pluck people off the streets and arrest them...for what? There is UN protection from being returned to somewhere where they have been abused. It is called refoulement and is upheld in any country which is a signatory of the UN Convention of Human Rights and/or the convention on refugees which outlines the rights of refugees and migrants. Both France and the UK are signatories. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 25, 2023 8:43:49 GMT
So what would you do that Braverman hasnt tried ? Instead of throwing snowballs, what would you ACTUALLY do to legally halt illegal immigration? I dont reply to conspiracy theories, in the same way that i dont believe in santa clause.
1. Immediately withdraw from the ECHR. 2. Ignore the ECtHR. 3. Implement international law via the UN if necessary. [UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) clearly states that any country with a sea border (Contiguous zone) may excercise controls necessary to prevent infringement of its customs and immigration laws]. 4. The government should be kicking up merry hell with the poxy EU who return boats to Libya but ignore boats that cross the channel. 5. The government should encourage a hostile atmosphere for illegals, no accommodation other than very basic huts and tents behind razor wire fences, very basic food, no free mobile phones and no pocket money. 6. Charities who coach illegals and advise them to destroy ID should lose their charitable status and CEO's should be prosecuted. If it were not for left wing/centrist pro EU politicians the above points could quite legally have been implemented years ago. You are describing a rogue state. And dont forget that if you leave the European Court of Human Rights, (nothing yo do with the EU) then every British citizen is unprotected if they are arrested in someone else's country. These include: The rights and freedoms secured by the Convention include the right to life, the right to a fair hearing, the right to respect for private and family life, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, conscience and religion and the protection of property. Are you sure you want to lose those rights ? As for UNCLOS, what legal action do you suggest that would protect you from infringement of your customs and immigration laws? The migrants dont have anything so customs control is irrrelevant. You cant arrest them because they havent committed any crimes and you cant send them back to a place where they will be abused. There seems to be a contradiction between your UNCLOS and the international maritime act which describes the responsibility to save lives at sea and return them to the country closest to the rescue. Perhaps a better solution would be to legally describe the length of time an asylum application must be dealt with and disallow appeals. FYI Oct 6 (Reuters) - The number of immigrants deported from European Union countries rose by 29% in the second quarter of 2023, mostly sent back from France and Germany, statistics agency Eurostat said on Friday, as the bloc tries to control exceptionally high arrivals. Of the 105,865 non-EU citizens that were ordered to leave an EU country, 26,600 were deported to another country, an increase of 29% from the second quarter of last year. REUTERS. Whereas: In the year ending March 2023, there were 3,141 Foreign National Offenders ( FNOs ) returned from the UK, of which a majority (58%, or 1,815) were EU nationals.Nov 14, 2023 www.gov.uk › statistics › - GOV.UK The sum total in the EU divided by 27 comes to over 5000 each. ( very roughly). France and Germany deport the most. Your problem resides in your own laws and the hugely mismanaged Home Office. The vast majority go to the UK legally. They fulfill the criteria of the points system and obey British law. None of your immigration woes are because of the EU. Now that you are "sovereign" you can make your own laws subject to international treaties such as the ECHR. So stop blaming everyone else. Other nations have to deal with it nationally. You threw away your agreements with the EU and said you would control your own borders. So??? |
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