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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 9:46:50 GMT
Oracle75, every MP in the House of Commons (650) can put forward a Private Members Bill. Every MP can put forward an early day motion. Our system is by no means perfect, but it is better. Your position, you're afraid, aren't you? Don't be. Project fear was wrong. Only when given permission. I believe there are fewer than half a dozen per year. By the same token every MEP can also put forward a private bill. These too are sifted for viability. There is no difference in principle. Only in details of what processes are called. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 9:53:57 GMT
I didn't say poorer countries had control over their CURRENCY. I said they had control over their ECONOMIES. It is up to them how they generate growth, via mechanisms such as corporation tax, special rates on buying up land to develop, or helping to open up new markets. Developing infrastructure. It is also up to them to decide what kind of a country it wants to be. It is getting on well enough now, the economy has stabilised and almost every country in the world lives on debt. The USA debt is over 1 trillion dollars. Leave Greece alone. And perhaps you should stop trying to tell them how to run their country. There is a great deal of wisdom in valuing quality of life over quantity. And finally, a bit less attitude from you might be appreciated. Jeez, what utter bollocks. Do you EU fanatics ever read the papers - apart from the guardian of course. For a start, control of the currency and money supply is integral to the control of the economy. If you can't control your currency you're pretty much lost. It's also not true that you can control your taxes - the EU has regulations on corporation tax and VAT for example. In fact it was the EU that demanded that every member country adopt VAT rather than a simpler sales tax - so that they could skim off tax into their own coffers. As for Greece "getting on well enough now" are you fucking blind or stupid? You don't know anything about Greece. Have you any idea what happens when your country's GDP HALVES? I suggest you tell the Greeks to "value quality of life over quantity". FFS. Or even better go and tell them how the "euro has supported their economy". You wouldn't get out alive you dummy. The visceral hatred that the Greeks have for the euro is off the scale. Stop calling me names. It completely devalues everything you pretend to know. No country has full control of its currency. The money markets do. That is the lesson Truss and her sidekick discovered. The money markets can destroy an entire economy. The fact that Greece uses the Euro gives the country the stability and backing the money markets ate content with. LIke that of the UK for few terrifying weeks. I won't be replying to any more of your posts. Not only are they parochial, they are insulting. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 18, 2022 10:07:34 GMT
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 10:17:23 GMT
Oh Vinny. The bills are put through the commission who decide if there is any mileage in it. In the same way that Mp's get the backing of their party. Why would any governmental organisation spend all its time entertaining bills that are a waste of everyone's time? They go through PARTIES and then the Commision WHICH PUTS IT INTO LEGAL TERMINOLOGY ( which is their job at this point) as they do in the EU. You do spend a lot of time discussing semantics instead of actual process. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 10:25:49 GMT
I just said this!! A single MEP can put his/ her suggestion through his/her own party which decided if it should go to the Commission. Look this is petty procedural gobshite which has little or no importance as to what leaving the EU has done to the economy and future of the UK. Please find someone else to mudwrestle with. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 18, 2022 10:46:56 GMT
Regarding the EU and democracy, it's not democratic enough for me. The Commission aren't elected and aren't representative of the public's wishes.
But you're entitled to your opinion.
At the time of the referendum we were doing less and less trade with the EU anyway.
It accounted for 43% of our exports down from 54% in 2000.
Large numbers of businesses had left us for cheaper areas of the EU / customs union.
Our steel industry was on its knees, in part because of the EU's policy on coal.
There's a massive number of reasons for not being in the EU and not a great deal of reasons for membership.
We voted leave, the world hasn't ended, get over our DEMOCRATIC decision.
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 18, 2022 11:08:18 GMT
Oracle75, every MP in the House of Commons (650) can put forward a Private Members Bill. Every MP can put forward an early day motion. Our system is by no means perfect, but it is better. Your position, you're afraid, aren't you? Don't be. Project fear was wrong. You still haven't told us what system you would use to harmonise laws/standards across the EU. The law of contract is different in all the 27 member states. That is a massive barrier to trade. What system would you use to harmonise the law in all member states? |
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Post by Steve on Nov 18, 2022 11:09:32 GMT
. . .As for Greece "getting on well enough now" are you fucking blind or stupid? You don't know anything about Greece. Have you any idea what happens when your country's GDP HALVES? I suggest you tell the Greeks to "value quality of life over quantity". FFS. Or even better go and tell them how the "euro has supported their economy". You wouldn't get out alive you dummy. The visceral hatred that the Greeks have for the euro is off the scale. Many Greeks will blame anyone and anything but themselves and their own selfish greed especially in the middle and upper classes who thought it great to make income tax effectively voluntary and kept getting their mates voted into office by giving unfunded early fat pensions to the plebs. They manipulated their way into the € and used it to fund an idiot boom. Their fault, not the EUs and when it collapsed the EU rescued them. But their GDP never halved and they are doing a lot better now Greece GDP  Greece Debt/GDP |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 18, 2022 11:17:04 GMT
Greece should be allowed to leave the Euro.
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Post by Steve on Nov 18, 2022 11:49:15 GMT
Greece should be allowed to leave the Euro. But most Greeks don't want to. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 18, 2022 11:51:11 GMT
They haven't had a referendum on the matter, without a vote it's impossible to tell.
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 11:52:24 GMT
Regarding the EU and democracy, it's not democratic enough for me. The Commission aren't elected and aren't representative of the public's wishes. But you're entitled to your opinion. At the time of the referendum we were doing less and less trade with the EU anyway. It accounted for 43% of our exports down from 54% in 2000. Large numbers of businesses had left us for cheaper areas of the EU / customs union. Our steel industry was on its knees, in part because of the EU's policy on coal. There's a massive number of reasons for not being in the EU and not a great deal of reasons for membership. We voted leave, the world hasn't ended, get over our DEMOCRATIC decision. The commission is indeed not representative of the peoples wishes. BECAUSE THEY ARENT REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE. They have no POLITICAL role. They don't have OPINIONS. They spend their time tesearching whether member nations can legally incorporate eu law into their own constitutions, translating legislation into necessary languages, arranging trade deals, dealing with disputes and arranging state visits. It would really help discussion if you knew what you were talking about. As for the rest of the stuff, you have no idea why these things happened if they did at all. In fact a very large number of British businesses left the UK and invested in the EU. Even more have gone since the referendum. And even more have gone out of business. Meanwhile inward investment has plummeted which is why the UK growth is so pathetic. Trade with the EU went down BECAUSE THE EU MADE TRADE DEALS WITH COUNTRIES OUTSIDE THE EU so your percentage of trade inside the EU dropped. The steel industry was in trouble because at that time China was dumping its own steel and driving the price of global steel down. Honestly. For someone so invested in this subject, you are woefully ignorant of facts. You seem to see the EU as some alternative country instead of a voluntary alliance. I can't discuss this with you. I spend so much time correcting your mistakes that I end up in the wilderness of irrelevant detail instead of in the important issues of today. You say it is irrelevant to discuss a done deal. Why then do you go on and on about the past? OTOH it is important to identify where the Uk's problems are so they can start to be fixed. So since I see no useful mileage in discussing this with you, nor have the time or energy to dance on the head of your stubborn misinformation, consider yourself ignored. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 18, 2022 11:55:08 GMT
Of course they have a political role, they write policy.
They are the executive.
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 18, 2022 12:13:12 GMT
Of course they have a political role, they write policy. They are the executive. . They WRITE UP what the heads of state, the Council, asks them to do. Just as the UK civil service does. One more exam0le of your mistakes. Bye. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 18, 2022 14:34:11 GMT
Stop calling me names. It completely devalues everything you pretend to know. No country has full control of its currency. The money markets do. That is the lesson Truss and her sidekick discovered. The money markets can destroy an entire economy. The fact that Greece uses the Euro gives the country the stability and backing the money markets ate content with. LIke that of the UK for few terrifying weeks. I won't be replying to any more of your posts. Not only are they parochial, they are insulting. If you write total nonsense then I'll call it out. And you've done it again. A total pile of nonsense. The money markets do NOT control currencies. They just bet on the exchange rates and try to make money. If they think it's going down they short it and if they think it's going up they buy. Sometimes they're right n sometimes they're wrong. The Truss govt were exceedingly naive and gave the markets an open goal by arrogantly borrowing without giving any indication of how they would fund it. And the reason why Greece is totally bust is that it had/has no control of its currency. It can't print money and it can't change interest rates - they're down to the ECB which is controlled by Germany. So when it got overborrowed (predictably - everybody knew it would happen when Greece joined the euro) there was SFA they could do about it. Their GDP halved. people went bankrupt and/or lost their jobs, their pensions were cut, their bank accounts were frozen/raided by the govt. Et cetera. Yet you keep saying that the "Euro gives the country the stability and backing the money markets ate content with". Bollocks. If you're a poor country in the Eurozone with an overvalued currency you're a sitting duck. Go to Greece and have a look round - or even Italy, who also bitterly regret their involvement with the euro. BTW - no capital letters for currencies. |
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