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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 6, 2022 20:38:21 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2022 22:24:58 GMT
Oh look - Newspaper that campaigned against Brexit thinks that Brexit is a failure. Well I never..  |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 6, 2022 22:54:51 GMT
Yea maybe but there point and evidence of fact stand .
Should I discount everything you say about Brexit because you supported leave .
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Post by Vinny on Nov 7, 2022 0:12:37 GMT
Brexit is fucking brilliant.
We're a democracy, our votes matter and project fear was bullshit.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2022 8:28:07 GMT
Yea maybe but there point and evidence of fact stand . Should I discount everything you say about Brexit because you supported leave . Stick to the facts and not what you are told by campaigning organisations like the FT. I'm old enough to remember when the FT were claiming that it would be an economic disaster for the UK if we didn't join the Euro - wonder how that worked out...  |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 12, 2022 8:10:28 GMT
Attempting to share a single currency between disparate countries NEVER works. The idea of "economic convergence" was always a joke. There are always winners and losers and, predictably, Germany has won and countries like Greece and Italy have lost. I remember when we tried to peg the pound to the Deutschmark (the ERM) and we ended up with interest rates at 15% in an attempt to keep the pound within the agreed exchange rate band. It still didn't work. Why do people NEVER learn.
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 12, 2022 10:39:36 GMT
Attempting to share a single currency between disparate countries NEVER works. The idea of "economic convergence" was always a joke. There are always winners and losers and, predictably, Germany has won and countries like Greece and Italy have lost. I remember when we tried to peg the pound to the Deutschmark (the ERM) and we ended up with interest rates at 15% in an attempt to keep the pound within the agreed exchange rate band. It still didn't work. Why do people NEVER learn. It seems to work for a large majority of EU countries. Greece has benefitted from the Euro and likewise, most countries would be bankrupt if they reverted back to their own currencies which would be worth very little in global trading. The Euro has the confidence of huge financial institutions and countries can rely on that if they need to. And imagine if each country had its own currency while manufacturing and trading across multiple borders. The cost and profit sums would be impossible to calculate as currency rates change between each other. And in which currency would a country export? A rising tide lifts all boats. The Euro is stable and respected. It represents one of the top three global economies in the world. I doubt any national European currency can do better. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 12, 2022 11:25:22 GMT
Attempting to share a single currency between disparate countries NEVER works. The idea of "economic convergence" was always a joke. There are always winners and losers and, predictably, Germany has won and countries like Greece and Italy have lost. I remember when we tried to peg the pound to the Deutschmark (the ERM) and we ended up with interest rates at 15% in an attempt to keep the pound within the agreed exchange rate band. It still didn't work. Why do people NEVER learn. It seems to work for a large majority of EU countries. Greece has benefitted from the Euro and likewise, most countries would be bankrupt if they reverted back to their own currencies which would be worth very little in global trading. The Euro has the confidence of huge financial institutions and countries can rely on that if they need to. And imagine if each country had its own currency while manufacturing and trading across multiple borders. The cost and profit sums would be impossible to calculate as currency rates change between each other. And in which currency would a country export? A rising tide lifts all boats. The Euro is stable and respected. It represents one of the top three global economies in the world. I doubt any national European currency can do better. Greece has been bankrupt for years using the euro; watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=94UcyJnRcGU |
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Post by Steve on Nov 12, 2022 11:35:18 GMT
Oh just what we needed (not) yet another thread discussing Brexit because the OP wants undie attention for a small piece of evidence for a point already made and debated How remiss of Tinculin to sign us up to forum software where the mods aren't given a thread merging tool  |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 12, 2022 20:43:18 GMT
Oh just what we needed (not) yet another thread discussing Brexit because the OP wants undie attention for a small piece of evidence for a point already made and debated How remiss of Tinculin to sign us up to forum software where the mods aren't given a thread merging tool Despite having posted on the thread I agree with you but it seems the only way to stop threads on a specific topic is either not permit a subject or have a word with the main "offenders". There's also a case to be made for stopping those who often make OPs that could be slotted into an existing thread though I suspect the glory would be missed. |
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 12, 2022 21:37:38 GMT
Oh just what we needed (not) yet another thread discussing Brexit because the OP wants undie attention for a small piece of evidence for a point already made and debated How remiss of Tinculin to sign us up to forum software where the mods aren't given a thread merging tool Despite having posted on the thread I agree with you but it seems the only way to stop threads on a specific topic is either not permit a subject or have a word with the main "offenders". There's also a case to be made for stopping those who often make OPs that could be slotted into an existing thread though I suspect the glory would be missed. I've just finished watching the video in the OP. Very good. |
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 12, 2022 21:38:32 GMT
Oh just what we needed (not) Speak for yourself. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 12, 2022 21:50:56 GMT
It seems to work for a large majority of EU countries. Greece has benefitted from the Euro and likewise, most countries would be bankrupt if they reverted back to their own currencies which would be worth very little in global trading. The Euro has the confidence of huge financial institutions and countries can rely on that if they need to. And imagine if each country had its own currency while manufacturing and trading across multiple borders. The cost and profit sums would be impossible to calculate as currency rates change between each other. And in which currency would a country export? A rising tide lifts all boats. The Euro is stable and respected. It represents one of the top three global economies in the world. I doubt any national European currency can do better. Greece has been bankrupt for years using the euro; watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=94UcyJnRcGUGreece has paid of Its dept to the imf 2 years a head of time being in the Eurozone |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 12, 2022 22:17:51 GMT
Greece has paid of Its dept to the imf 2 years a head of time being in the Eurozone They've paid the installment you mean, with a world recession looming they might just struggle with the next one. Much of their debt to the EU or ECB is because they couldn't meet their deadlines for repayment. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 16, 2022 13:55:23 GMT
Attempting to share a single currency between disparate countries NEVER works. The idea of "economic convergence" was always a joke. There are always winners and losers and, predictably, Germany has won and countries like Greece and Italy have lost. I remember when we tried to peg the pound to the Deutschmark (the ERM) and we ended up with interest rates at 15% in an attempt to keep the pound within the agreed exchange rate band. It still didn't work. Why do people NEVER learn. It seems to work for a large majority of EU countries. Greece has benefitted from the Euro and likewise, most countries would be bankrupt if they reverted back to their own currencies which would be worth very little in global trading. The Euro has the confidence of huge financial institutions and countries can rely on that if they need to. And imagine if each country had its own currency while manufacturing and trading across multiple borders. The cost and profit sums would be impossible to calculate as currency rates change between each other. And in which currency would a country export? A rising tide lifts all boats. The Euro is stable and respected. It represents one of the top three global economies in the world. I doubt any national European currency can do better. I think that's the most ignorant post I've ever read on any forum. Greece is bankrupt and will never pay off its debt. The Eurozone was hit very hard by the banking crisis in 2007/8 - much harder than the UK - and the EU/ECB refused to resort to QE until it was too late. So the Greek GDP halved over the following years and is still half what it was in real terms. Many businesses went under and the suicide rate went up a lot. It's a basket case now and there's no way it can pay off its debt because the interest rate is too high. As for having the confidence of "huge financial institutions" the only body (apart from the ECB/ESM) who would lend them money was the IMF - which is strictly against its own remit. The IMF was not set up to bail out currencies - just countries. And it must only do it if it has confidence that the loan can be repaid. They lent money to Greece at a very high interest rate. Most of Greece's loans came from the ECB. These debts have not been paid off and never will be. The problem with a lot of disparate countries sharing the same currency is that they all tend to have their own natural interest rate. Greece worked fine with the drachma but they never balanced their books and they had to pay high rates of interest for their borrowing. But their currency depreciated a lot anyway so their loans also depreciated. When they joined the euro they adopted a currency which was more stable and therefore had lower interest rates. But the Greeks just carried on as before - in fact they borrowed more because the interest rates were lower So when the banking crisis hit they were screwed. The UK also had a run-in with the euro when we joined the ERM - look it up. We had a natural interest rate far higher than the euro but we lowered it when we joined the ERM. You can read for yourself what happened. We got out and recovered very quickly, Greece can't do that. They have no way out and nor do any of the poorer countries who relied on borrowing. The bottom line is that Germany runs the ECB and the euro is the "new Deutschmark". It allows Germany to trade with a currency that is about 20% undervalued - so it can dump cheap BMWs and VWs etc on countries and their native manufacturers can't compete. It's called dumping - and China does it too. Unfortunately for Germany to trade with an undervalued currency many other countries (most) have to trade with an over-valued currency - no free lunches in finance. It's reckoned that Greece would have to devalue its currency by over 40% to become competitive. But of course it can't because it's in the euro. They're screwed - alomg with many other eurozone countries. Why do so few people get this? It's not complicated. |
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