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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 14:52:18 GMT
Something in my mind tells me that the correlation between Brexit and why Labour did so badly in the 2019 general election surely does not add up. The margin between Leave and Remain was less than 4 points, with Remain on 48.1 and Leave on 51.9, yet the Conservatives achieved an 11 point win over Labour in a general election three years later, and incidentally at a time when according to polls, the gap between Remain and Leave had narrowed. Me thinks there were other issues which influenced the 2019 result, not that Brexit was not amongst the issues, but seems it was not the decisive issue. Yes. The referendum was never a left right issue. There were a couple of big factors, the paralysis over Brexit was one, but Labour's manifesto, its left wing leader and too split a vote were also issues. The UK actually voted for left wing parties in 2019, but ended up with a Tory majority of 80. sorry but if this and the previous witch finder post is addressing me , can I categorically state I dont believe I have said or implied Brexit was a left right issue. Clearly every party had a voting base that supported leave and remain , to a lesser or greater degree. If I recall , a large minority of snp voters supported leave. 62 % of labour 2016 constituencies voted leave. So on and so forth. The point im making is trying to understand why Corbyns support fell by two half million votes from what we were told was his marxist manifesto in 2017 , when he came close to winning , and his manifesto in 2019? What put voters off? While agree many factors might have contributed , I believe the main factor was starmers disastrous pushing of what was labour Brexit policy in 2019 , compared to labour Brexit policy of 2017 , where they supported Brexit being implemented. the public had had enough of the shenanigans of parliament from 2016 to 2019 , and as someone who voted remain , I actually found a degree of sympathy as a democrat for brexiters because of what people like starmer tried to do. I would think more of starmer and new labour if they came right out and told the uk public their clear intention to tie the uk back into the EU. ..but they won't , because they are cowards , and because labour always think they public stupider than what labour is..... |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 14:54:58 GMT
Something in my mind tells me that the correlation between Brexit and why Labour did so badly in the 2019 general election surely does not add up. The margin between Leave and Remain was less than 4 points, with Remain on 48.1 and Leave on 51.9, yet the Conservatives achieved an 11 point win over Labour in a general election three years later, and incidentally at a time when according to polls, the gap between Remain and Leave had narrowed. Me thinks there were other issues which influenced the 2019 result, not that Brexit was not amongst the issues, but seems it was not the decisive issue. ok so what caused labour support to drop in two years by two half million between the 17 and 19 elections? |
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Post by witchfinder on Jan 28, 2024 15:20:03 GMT
Hard to pin point it down to any one thing, but my guess is that it was a combination, with Brexit been part of the answer, but also the growing realisation by a lot of traditional Labour voters that JC was very left wing, and there was a perception, promoted by much of the media that he was unpatriotic, a sympathiser of terrorists and a "left wing loony".
Add to that was the fact that the Conservatives were now led by a populist, and not a traditional Conservative, it was all inspiring to many who would normally vote Labour.
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 15:54:45 GMT
Hard to pin point it down to any one thing, but my guess is that it was a combination, with Brexit been part of the answer, but also the growing realisation by a lot of traditional Labour voters that JC was very left wing, and there was a perception, promoted by much of the media that he was unpatriotic, a sympathiser of terrorists and a "left wing loony". Add to that was the fact that the Conservatives were now led by a populist, and not a traditional Conservative, it was all inspiring to many who would normally vote Labour. So you earlier imply it wasn't Brexit , but now can't tell me exactly what it was that caused labours massive 2019 defeat.? Im told by former card carrying labour members on this very forum that Corbyns left wing ( often described as nigh on marxist by new labour centrists and tories) manifesto in 2017 was what drew voters to support Corbyns labour. So sorry , not sure I agree with you. If you think you can ignore Brexit , which is still an elephant sitting in the room , play the Corbyn marxist card as the 2019 defeat reason , and ignore starmers dirty mitts all over what happened in 2019 , then more fool you if you support starmer. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 15:55:43 GMT
. Add to that was the fact that the Conservatives were now led by a populist, and not a traditional Conservative, it was all inspiring to many who would normally vote Labour. |This is nonsense. Brexit was the clear reason the red wall fell to the tories. We all know it. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 16:02:52 GMT
Starmer should apologise for Labour's Brexit position, say ex-shadow ministers
Frontbenchers under Jeremy Corbyn say promise to seek another referendum angered leave voters
Keir Starmer should apologise for Labour’s promise to seek a second referendum on Brexit, three former shadow ministers have argued, saying the policy had left many of the party’s leave-backing traditional supporters “in a rage”.
Ian Lavery, Jon Trickett and Laura Smith, all of whom held frontbench posts under Jeremy Corbyn, have produced a report into attitudes to the party among its supporters, based on discussions at 50 virtual events.
Before the launch of the document, titled No Holding Back, the trio said a considerable element of Labour’s falling away in support among working-class voters in 2019 was due to its approach to Brexit.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/12/starmer-should-apologise-for-labours-brexit-position-say-ex-shadow-ministers
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Post by Dogburger on Jan 28, 2024 16:26:06 GMT
Starmer should apologise for Labour's Brexit position, say ex-shadow ministers
Frontbenchers under Jeremy Corbyn say promise to seek another referendum angered leave voters
Keir Starmer should apologise for Labour’s promise to seek a second referendum on Brexit, three former shadow ministers have argued, saying the policy had left many of the party’s leave-backing traditional supporters “in a rage”.
Ian Lavery, Jon Trickett and Laura Smith, all of whom held frontbench posts under Jeremy Corbyn, have produced a report into attitudes to the party among its supporters, based on discussions at 50 virtual events.
Before the launch of the document, titled No Holding Back, the trio said a considerable element of Labour’s falling away in support among working-class voters in 2019 was due to its approach to Brexit.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/12/starmer-should-apologise-for-labours-brexit-position-say-ex-shadow-ministers I dunno ,I think we all know (or should do by now) that ALL of the Westminster parties would seek another referendum if they thought they could get away with it . Labour are just confused as to what's the best thing to say to attract voters on this and many other issues . They inevitably back the wrong horse and would spend their whole time apologising if they started . Best they just keep quiet . |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 17:07:51 GMT
Starmer should apologise for Labour's Brexit position, say ex-shadow ministers
Frontbenchers under Jeremy Corbyn say promise to seek another referendum angered leave voters
Keir Starmer should apologise for Labour’s promise to seek a second referendum on Brexit, three former shadow ministers have argued, saying the policy had left many of the party’s leave-backing traditional supporters “in a rage”.
Ian Lavery, Jon Trickett and Laura Smith, all of whom held frontbench posts under Jeremy Corbyn, have produced a report into attitudes to the party among its supporters, based on discussions at 50 virtual events.
Before the launch of the document, titled No Holding Back, the trio said a considerable element of Labour’s falling away in support among working-class voters in 2019 was due to its approach to Brexit.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/12/starmer-should-apologise-for-labours-brexit-position-say-ex-shadow-ministers I dunno ,I think we all know (or should do by now) that ALL of the Westminster parties would seek another referendum if they thought they could get away with it . Labour are just confused as to what's the best thing to say to attract voters on this and many other issues . They inevitably back the wrong horse and would spend their whole time apologising if they started . Best they just keep quiet . sure im just trying to address the nonsense earlier in this thread implied by witch finder , and agreed to by Andrew , that labours Brexit achilles heel wasn't the main reason labour fell flat on their arse in 2019. Doesn't matter if you supported snp , liberal , ukip , tory or labour , we can all agree the 2019 general election was in the main about Brexit. All the other issues the weary electorate faced were side issues. All the main parties made key pledges regarding Brexit , and starmers disastrous second Brexit referendum strategy ws the main (but not the only) reason labour lost conclusively , pissing on the back of their own red wall Brexit supporters. To try and re write history now because that same anti democrat starmer is back for this general election , only this time in charge of the whole party , and still pushing his divisive BRINO strategy , is fucking laughable. At least daft jo Swinson of the liberals, however deluded , had the guts starmer lacked in 2019 to say she would reverse the referendum result , however much people disagreed with her. That's the trouble with labour on most issues ....they are against public opinion on most matters , and arrogantly take the we know best approach to everything. |
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Post by Totheleft on Jan 28, 2024 17:47:07 GMT
Something in my mind tells me that the correlation between Brexit and why Labour did so badly in the 2019 general election surely does not add up. The margin between Leave and Remain was less than 4 points, with Remain on 48.1 and Leave on 51.9, yet the Conservatives achieved an 11 point win over Labour in a general election three years later, and incidentally at a time when according to polls, the gap between Remain and Leave had narrowed. Me thinks there were other issues which influenced the 2019 result, not that Brexit was not amongst the issues, but seems it was not the decisive issue. ok so what caused labour support to drop in two years by two half million between the 17 and 19 elections? I've already told you this the Report that the Equality rights put out . That found Corbyn.and his supporters gulty of Anti Semitic views. And like I said that will be Vindicated when labour win by a landside victory. Especially seeing has made it Clear he wants Closer ties with the EU. And the return of the 20+red wall seats will enforce this |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 17:59:55 GMT
ok so what caused labour support to drop in two years by two half million between the 17 and 19 elections? I've already told you this the Report that the Equality rights put out . That found Corbyn.and his supporters gulty of Anti Semitic views. What are you talking about? The EHRC report on antisemitism within labour was released October 2020 , 10 months after the 2019 general election. How could this report cause labour to lose two half million voters in December 2019 when it hadn't been released? You do talk some utter nonsense. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54731222 labour.org.uk/resources/ehrc-report/ |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 18:02:53 GMT
ok so what caused labour support to drop in two years by two half million between the 17 and 19 elections? And like I said that will be Vindicated when labour win by a landside victory. Especially seeing has made it Clear he wants Closer ties with the EU.And the return of the 20+red wall seats will enforce this shhhh lefty you aren't supposed to tell people that.  |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 28, 2024 18:07:37 GMT
And like I said that will be Vindicated when labour win by a landside victory. Especially seeing has made it Clear he wants Closer ties with the EU.And the return of the 20+red wall seats will enforce this shhhh lefty you aren't supposed to tell people that. It's only dumb Starmer/Labour that can't see the EU is living on borrowed time, they knew their fate was sealed when the UK left. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 28, 2024 18:11:23 GMT
Hard to pin point it down to any one thing, but my guess is that it was a combination, with Brexit been part of the answer, but also the growing realisation by a lot of traditional Labour voters that JC was very left wing, and there was a perception, promoted by much of the media that he was unpatriotic, a sympathiser of terrorists and a "left wing loony". Add to that was the fact that the Conservatives were now led by a populist, and not a traditional Conservative, it was all inspiring to many who would normally vote Labour. Oh do come on - you would have had to have been living in a cave for the past 4 decades to not know that Corbyn was hard left. He has never made any secret of his socialism and support for terrorists around the globe. As thomas pointed out - Corbyn (with all his baggage) did very well in 2017. 2 years later it all fell apart so it has to be down to something else rather than him personally. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 28, 2024 18:14:37 GMT
shhhh lefty you aren't supposed to tell people that. It's only dumb Starmer/Labour that can't see the EU is living on borrowed time, they knew their fate was sealed when the UK left. I have said numerous times now , starmer is no Tony Blair , and he certainly isn't the brightest bulb. He does though have this arrogant streak , that the plebs are all stupid , and people won't notice him tying the uk back into the eu behind the Brussels bike sheds . The uk is going to go up in smoke if that man takes power in my opinion. His approval ratings are terrible , and he looks like he may win the next election by standing still as all the other parties fall past him. What a terrible indictment for the man and his party . Will he have a democratic mandate , probably the worst in uk electoral history to take the uk back in off the back of 20% of the electorate? Starmer by my reckoning is polled to take around ten million votes , and 17 half million voted to leave the eu. I suspect there is going to be a lot of angry people about. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 28, 2024 18:20:20 GMT
It's only dumb Starmer/Labour that can't see the EU is living on borrowed time, they knew their fate was sealed when the UK left. I have said numerous times now , starmer is no Tony Blair , and he certainly isn't the brightest bulb. He does though have this arrogant streak , that the plebs are all stupid , and people won't notice him tying the uk back into the eu behind the Brussels bike sheds . The uk is going to go up in smoke if that man takes power in my opinion. His approval ratings are terrible , and he looks like he may win the next election by standing still as all the other parties fall past him. What a terrible indictment for the man and his party . Will he have a democratic mandate , probably the worst in uk electoral history to take the uk back in off the back of 20% of the electorate? Starmer by my reckoning is polled to take around ten million votes , and 17 half million voted to leave the eu. I suspect there is going to be a lot of angry people about. To be honest all Starmer is interested in winning the next GE is to use his power to tie us back to the EU, he's most likely already cut a deal with them, with the promises of big rewards. Blair was the same, he's built a empire with his ties to the EU and he has no intentions of letting them go, mark my words when Starmer leaves politics he too will be mega wealthy just like Blair, it's their reward for being a nodding dog obedient servant of the EU. |
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