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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 17, 2023 10:42:08 GMT
Jeez, you are so fuckin clueless it's almost laughable. Listen, I'm from the school of thought that says, when in Rome. When I was in other countries I respected other cultures other religions other peoples way of life. When other people come to the UK I expect them to show me the same respect. Of course I'm laughing as I write this because thanks to clueless lefties like you minorities can do more or less what they please and if I complain, I'm shouted down as a nasty racist, a far right extremist but not to worry, it's all adding to the pressure. That's because you see things as very back and white. Sometimes that's helpful, but oftentimes not. For example one of the British values that you claim to defend is tolerance, but yet you have zero tolerance to anyone who doesn't agree with your way on things. Oh the irony.  |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 17, 2023 10:46:21 GMT
...one thing strikes me about those lefties on here and those we see on telly is that it comes across that they haven't been anywhere or done anything... I've noticed that for some time. Some on here appear to have reached a fairly ripe age without acquiring any of the common sense or life experience that would normally go with it. That speaks of a particularly coddled existence or almost wilful stupidity. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 17, 2023 11:13:10 GMT
We have Muslim MP's, we have over 1500 mosques here in the UK, we have Halal food on tap. Do you think this kind of 'multiculturalism' hasn't/doesn't work, and that perhaps the should be assimilated into churches, and Sunday roast porks for dinner? How do we work with them? What does that look like, as it seems this is idealistic rhetoric to hide behind. I think Christians, Muslims and people of all other faiths should be free to practice their religion. As to working with the Muslim community, the government's prevent strategy has three main priorities, one of which is: "intervene early to support people susceptible to radicalisation" You can't do that from arms length. You can't do that without admitting most fundamental terrorism happens from a small percentage of the population that is the Muslim group though. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 17, 2023 11:16:44 GMT
I think Christians, Muslims and people of all other faiths should be free to practice their religion. As to working with the Muslim community, the government's prevent strategy has three main priorities, one of which is: "intervene early to support people susceptible to radicalisation" You can't do that from arms length. You can't do that without admitting most fundamental terrorism happens from a small percentage of the population that is the Muslim group though. Nobody disputes that, although it isn't exclusive to the Muslim community. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 17, 2023 11:21:58 GMT
You can't do that without admitting most fundamental terrorism happens from a small percentage of the population that is the Muslim group though. Nobody disputes that, although it isn't exclusive to the Muslim community. Nobody said it was, and that isn't reason enough to find a solution to it, no matter how unpalatable you find it. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 17, 2023 12:10:34 GMT
Nobody disputes that, although it isn't exclusive to the Muslim community. Nobody said it was, and that isn't reason enough to find a solution to it, no matter how unpalatable you find it. For me it's not about whether I find it palatable it's whether or not it is effective. Doubling down on the divisive them and us mentality of the Islamic extremists is counter productive imho. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 17, 2023 12:39:16 GMT
Hi HH. I don't think this country has much option other than to follow your suggested path to the future. BUT, as you are no doubt aware, I have serious concerns about Islam the Religion. It is a highly over self indoctrinating religion, thus giving, as far as religion is concerned, the emotional area of the brain greater control of the 'logical area' of the brain. Which is all very well until ideas get distorted along the way. That the religion has the longest dispute ever between the two main sects doesn't help. I'm pretty sure that the recent mass demonstrations over what is going in Garza has as much do with a cult like hatred of the Jews/Israelis by the Arabs, as it has to do with the deaths and destruction taking place in Gaza. It is the almost complete absence of serious concern by the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab world over 7/10 that feeds into my concerns. My personal suspicion is that as the percentage of Muslims in the population increases the call for Sharia Law will grow. Again, there appears to be more than one version of Sharia Law, with some version seeking increased Islamic law and control of people, not just help with personal problems. Islam is on the increase claimed by some to be because Muslims tend to have large families. I personally would not like to even sense the possibility that the UK could one day become just another Muslim country. These are my own personal concerns which may or may not be of any value. Personally I am at odds with significant chunks of Islamic beliefs, same with all the other major religions, I don't see that as a justification for criminalising them, apart from anything else that would be plainly narcissistic. I'm also at odds with a lot of the political ideology of the people who are currently in power and that's a much more immediate concern than distant future demographic hypotheticals. Nor do I see it as a justification for criminalising any religion. But people should be free to post their concerns. I think you missed my genuine area of concern, i.e. the clearly self-indoctrinating style of Islam the religion. I equate such levels of indoctrination as cult like in there use. This might make more sense to you if you consider the fact that thousands of operations on the brain have been done without the use of anesthetics, this is because the Brain cannot FEEL anything. It can only receive and recognise that feelings are being sent from the nervous system and the sensory system, the latter sends out hormonal created feelings. The stronger these learnt hormonal feelings are the greater control they exert on the Logical part of the brain. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 17, 2023 13:01:21 GMT
Personally I am at odds with significant chunks of Islamic beliefs, same with all the other major religions, I don't see that as a justification for criminalising them, apart from anything else that would be plainly narcissistic. I'm also at odds with a lot of the political ideology of the people who are currently in power and that's a much more immediate concern than distant future demographic hypotheticals. Nor do I see it as a justification for criminalising any religion. But people should be free to post their concerns. I think you missed my genuine area of concern, i.e. the clearly self-indoctrinating style of Islam the religion. I equate such levels of indoctrination as cult like in there use. This might make more sense to you if you consider the fact that thousands of operations on the brain have been done without the use of anesthetics, this is because the Brain cannot FEEL anything. It can only receive and recognise that feelings are being sent from the nervous system and the sensory system, the latter sends out hormonal created feelings. The stronger these learnt hormonal feelings are the greater control they exert on the Logical part of the brain. What the bloody hell are you rambling on about ........ LOL |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 17, 2023 14:57:37 GMT
Then what is the best route and several things stand out as desperately urgent. 1) Stop all Muslim immigration as the evidence is it will only increase the problem. 2) Remove all illegal migrants as most are from Islamic countries and are an obvious higher risk. 3) Apply the hate laws to religions and any preaching and quoting of hate texts in a public place prosecuted in the same way ordinary people would be prosecuted. If not what is your solution? I don't think that stopping all Muslim immigration is practical or morally justifiable and more importantly would be a propaganda gold mine for islamic extremists. Removing all illegal immigrants is like arresting, trying and imprisoning all criminals, we all want to see it but it's not that simple. As I understand it hate laws do apply religions. Of course it is practical to stop Muslim immigration, extremists do not need propaganda goldmines they claim all sorts of things all the time like Islamophobia, and Israel is a terrorist state. Removing illegal migrants should be a dawdle what makes it difficult is the cornucopia of laws and legal experts they can enlist to stop any deportation or an Aladdin's cave of reasons from pet cats to getting others pregnant. Try giving a year's amnesty and any illegal migrant coming forward to be returned would receive a grant to return to their home country, say several thousand pounds and then after a year if they are found then offsky with nothing. If hate laws apply to religions they are not being enforced. Make a factual comment on X and the Bill will be round tout de suite to take you to the cells. Preach about the sons of apes and pigs in a public place and well it is just scripture. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 17, 2023 15:14:10 GMT
I don't think that stopping all Muslim immigration is practical or morally justifiable and more importantly would be a propaganda gold mine for islamic extremists. Removing all illegal immigrants is like arresting, trying and imprisoning all criminals, we all want to see it but it's not that simple. As I understand it hate laws do apply religions. Of course it is practical to stop Muslim immigration, extremists do not need propaganda goldmines they claim all sorts of things all the time like Islamophobia, and Israel is a terrorist state. Removing illegal migrants should be a dawdle what makes it difficult is the cornucopia of laws and legal experts they can enlist to stop any deportation or an Aladdin's cave of reasons from pet cats to getting others pregnant. Try giving a year's amnesty and any illegal migrant coming forward to be returned would receive a grant to return to their home country, say several thousand pounds and then after a year if they are found then offsky with nothing. If hate laws apply to religions they are not being enforced. Make a factual comment on X and the Bill will be round tout de suite to take you to the cells. Preach about the sons of apes and pigs in a public place and well it is just scripture. The state singling out Muslims for special treatment in this way would go way beyond any propaganda boost islamic extremists in the UK have ever had. Illegal migrants, like other criminals don't tend to advertise themselves to the authorities. If there was a simple and easy way to round them all up don't you think that an imploding government miles behind in the polls would have activated it? Hate speech laws already apply to all, Anjem Choudary was imprisoned in Britain in 2016 for encouraging support for the ISIL. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 17, 2023 15:47:42 GMT
Of course it is practical to stop Muslim immigration, extremists do not need propaganda goldmines they claim all sorts of things all the time like Islamophobia, and Israel is a terrorist state. Removing illegal migrants should be a dawdle what makes it difficult is the cornucopia of laws and legal experts they can enlist to stop any deportation or an Aladdin's cave of reasons from pet cats to getting others pregnant. Try giving a year's amnesty and any illegal migrant coming forward to be returned would receive a grant to return to their home country, say several thousand pounds and then after a year if they are found then offsky with nothing. If hate laws apply to religions they are not being enforced. Make a factual comment on X and the Bill will be round tout de suite to take you to the cells. Preach about the sons of apes and pigs in a public place and well it is just scripture. The state singling out Muslims for special treatment in this way would go way beyond any propaganda boost islamic extremists in the UK have ever had. Illegal migrants, like other criminals don't tend to advertise themselves to the authorities. If there was a simple and easy way to round them all up don't you think that an imploding government miles behind in the polls would have activated it? Hate speech laws already apply to all, Anjem Choudary was imprisoned in Britain in 2016 for encouraging support for the ISIL. Choudary as I understand it was jailed under the terrorism act not for hate speech. Muslims have already singled themselves out for special treatment in many ways as regards British laws and values. I had a shop in a heritage centre just before 9/11 and a large group of Muslims came on a visit and asked to have communal prayers in the reception centre. The staff were a bit bemused but agreed as what harm could it do. Nowadays I would fight tooth and nail to disallow it, it is a statement of ownership, of intent and of overlordship. Being reasonable is grist to the mill for Islam and its even moderate adherents. With numbers comes increased problems as every country in the world with Muslims can attest. Border force are finding many illegal migrants and workers every day, Grenfell showed that there were many occupying the housing stock. I have laid out a solution and all it takes is a task force armed with the relevant powers and as Covid showed anything is possible if it is needs must. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 17, 2023 15:59:06 GMT
So, as an avowed atheist, you're scared of people saying prayers?
I have to scratch my head at that. 🤔
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Post by sandypine on Nov 17, 2023 16:15:57 GMT
So, as an avowed atheist, you're scared of people saying prayers? I have to scratch my head at that. 🤔 I have no problem with anyone saying prayers, communal prayer in someone else's place is a whole different kettle of fish. It is an imposition and it takes the reasonableness of other parties to make a statement. Islam plays on reasonableness to have its way. Step by step it inveigles its needs into yours and requests eventually become demands. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2023 16:28:32 GMT
We have Muslim MP's, we have over 1500 mosques here in the UK, we have Halal food on tap. Do you think this kind of 'multiculturalism' hasn't/doesn't work, and that perhaps the should be assimilated into churches, and Sunday roast porks for dinner? How do we work with them? What does that look like, as it seems this is idealistic rhetoric to hide behind. I think Christians, Muslims and people of all other faiths should be free to practice their religion. As to working with the Muslim community, the government's prevent strategy has three main priorities, one of which is: "intervene early to support people susceptible to radicalisation" You can't do that from arms length. 30,000 Prevent courses should do the trick. Those Muslim extremists can be deprogrammed from their death cult. I wonder how many of the 30,000 were on the recent hate Israel marches. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2023 16:30:43 GMT
Jeez, you are so fuckin clueless it's almost laughable. Listen, I'm from the school of thought that says, when in Rome. When I was in other countries I respected other cultures other religions other peoples way of life. When other people come to the UK I expect them to show me the same respect. Of course I'm laughing as I write this because thanks to clueless lefties like you minorities can do more or less what they please and if I complain, I'm shouted down as a nasty racist, a far right extremist but not to worry, it's all adding to the pressure. Our way of life includes religious tolerance. Seems you need to take your own advice, when in Rome. The thing is, Islam is not just a religion, it is a political and legal system that intends to conquer the world. They see the UK as a country to be conquered. That has to be resisted doesn't it? |
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