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Post by Vinny on Nov 9, 2023 9:40:35 GMT
Your numerous childish lying attacks on me prove your immaturity, its what you do that determines what you are not what you think. If or when you decide to debate like an adult, assuming you are capable of it, without your persistent lies, I will indulge in debate. I have made that obvious earlier when I pointed to a lie in a number of your posts as the reason for me not indulging in debate with you. You chose to ignore the obvious. I asked an adult question. What about the settler land thefts. It is you responding with shite and childish personal attacks. What does a single word you have said contribute to the debate? The settler land thefts are a problem. And it wouldn't have been possible to continue it, had Hamas not expanded their terrorism after the Gaza pullout and the removal of settlers there. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 9, 2023 10:01:03 GMT
There are of course two distinct purposes for public demonstrations this weekend.
One is the remembrance and respect for those who fought and/or died in the two world wars. We dont distinguish as to what faith or nationality they were or are.the important word is REMEMBRANCE.
The other march is for peace. Now how you see peace occurring us a personal opinion. And we all know that whatever we shout will make zero difference as to whether or how peace is achieved. That is decided by the two antagonists.
The march for peace this time is the I/P issue. It used to be about VietNam. Or Northern Ireland. Or any other issue we are constantly bombarded with by the press or politicians. Mostly the press.
Example, why are the peace marches not about Ukraine?
You can have a march for the CONCEPT of universal peace but this one is only about the last issue we are controlled to be concerned about.
Personally i dont care about the I/P issue anymore than i am concerned about the Uigars or Mali or any other man'inhumanity to man. I too would love universal peace but it wont happen by walking through the streets of London.
I am more concerned that we remember and honour those who lived and died in the war to end all wars...how ironic is that.
To be quiet and respectful and pause to realise what carnage war is intead of using the moment to foment even more adversity, justifying provocation and being manipulated to feel tribal.
The one demonstration i would support is to parade all editors and copywriters through London and everyone be armed with a half a dozen eggs.
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Post by see2 on Nov 9, 2023 10:15:34 GMT
Are you suggesting that it was OK for Russia to invade the Ukraine with the intention of taking control of all of the Ukraine? No. That's why I used the word "provoked". Nothing justifies what Russia has done in the Ukraine, but it has been obvious for decades that Russia is extremely sensitive about Ukraine and the extension of the EU empire and NATO to the east. Yet the EU just kept on pushing - cosying up to Ukraine. There was only ever going to be one outcome. The great pity is that Boris went and committed vast amounts of our money to arming Ukraine. This conflict has NOTHING to do with us now we've left the EU and we should have kept out of it. Let the EU clear up the mess. Yanukovych was Russia's man in the Ukraine, he wanted closer ties with Russia, the people of the Ukraine didn't. The people wanted closer trading with the EU. When in 2013 Yanukovych dropped the signing up of the Ukraine to closer trading with the EU (and its freedoms) the people demonstrated against him. When the dramatic loss of lives of the demonstrators occurred under Yanukovych he high tailed it into the safety of Russia. And Russia immediately annexed Crimea and backed the demonstrators calling for independence in Ukraine. NATO has never been a threat to the Russian Empire, the problem for Russia from NATO was that it curtailed Russia's DNA need for grabbing other people's countries. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 9, 2023 12:07:10 GMT
Saying that the war in Sudan is "not related to the killings in Gaza in any way" is a bit of a stretch even for you dappy. All of the wars in Africa and the Middle East are basically related to the struggle for muslim supremacy. In fact if Islam were abolished there would be very few wars - just those provoked by the EU, like the war in Ukraine. Are you suggesting that it was OK for Russia to invade the Ukraine with the intention of taking control of all of the Ukraine? Well you dont seem to care when Israel invades Palestine with the intention of taking control of all of Palestine. In fact you repeatedly deny it has happened continuously since 1948. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 9, 2023 12:14:48 GMT
Are you suggesting that it was OK for Russia to invade the Ukraine with the intention of taking control of all of the Ukraine? No. That's why I used the word "provoked". Nothing justifies what Russia has done in the Ukraine, but it has been obvious for decades that Russia is extremely sensitive about Ukraine and the extension of the EU empire and NATO to the east. Yet the EU just kept on pushing - cosying up to Ukraine. There was only ever going to be one outcome. The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 9, 2023 13:14:15 GMT
Are you suggesting that it was OK for Russia to invade the Ukraine with the intention of taking control of all of the Ukraine? Well you dont seem to care when Israel invades Palestine with the intention of taking control of all of Palestine. In fact you repeatedly deny it has happened continuously since 1948. 1948? Oh, you mean after the Palestinian Arabs rejected the two state solution and followed that with the war when 5 Arab armies and a group of Palestinian Arab fighters tried to annihilate Israel. And Israel was still not free of the threat of annihilation from the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab nations even after they won the war for survival. Funny how you get your information so mixed up. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 9, 2023 13:43:33 GMT
No. That's why I used the word "provoked". Nothing justifies what Russia has done in the Ukraine, but it has been obvious for decades that Russia is extremely sensitive about Ukraine and the extension of the EU empire and NATO to the east. Yet the EU just kept on pushing - cosying up to Ukraine. There was only ever going to be one outcome. The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. When did the people of the Ukraine decide to join the EU? I must have missed it. And Russia thinks that they have a promise from the West not to extend the reach of NATO further east. The war in Ukraine is obviously a complete failure of diplomacy between the EU and Russia. It only happened because Biden is so pro-EU. If Trump had been president he would have got the two sides together and sorted it out before it came to war. |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 9, 2023 13:57:12 GMT
Well you dont seem to care when Israel invades Palestine with the intention of taking control of all of Palestine. In fact you repeatedly deny it has happened continuously since 1948. 1948? Oh, you mean after the Palestinian Arabs rejected the two state solution and followed that with the war when 5 Arab armies and a group of Palestinian Arab fighters tried to annihilate Israel. And Israel was still not free of the threat of annihilation from the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab nations even after they won the war for survival. Funny how you get your information so mixed up. The Arabs sent militias rather than armies while the US and Russia armed the Jewish groups in Palestine. Jordan had the biggest contingent yet their King was more interested in taking land for Jordan than preserving a Palestinian state. The Jewish groups also acquired Bombers and fighter planes......... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 9, 2023 14:50:07 GMT
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Post by Vinny on Nov 9, 2023 15:17:01 GMT
The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. When did the people of the Ukraine decide to join the EU? I must have missed it. And Russia thinks that they have a promise from the West not to extend the reach of NATO further east. The war in Ukraine is obviously a complete failure of diplomacy between the EU and Russia. It only happened because Biden is so pro-EU. If Trump had been president he would have got the two sides together and sorted it out before it came to war. I don't recall the people of Ukraine having a vote on joining the EU, but at the same time they never had a vote on being invaded by Russia. As for Russia and NATO, Putin tried to join it in 2000 and Blair used to invite the man to NATO meetings. Bit hypocritical of him trying to stop others joining an organisation he tried to join himself. |
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Post by Ripley on Nov 9, 2023 16:36:28 GMT
The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. When did the people of the Ukraine decide to join the EU? I must have missed it. And Russia thinks that they have a promise from the West not to extend the reach of NATO further east. The war in Ukraine is obviously a complete failure of diplomacy between the EU and Russia. It only happened because Biden is so pro-EU. If Trump had been president he would have got the two sides together and sorted it out before it came to war. Trump has said that he would have come to an arrangement with Putin over Ukraine, and hinted the arrangement would consist of giving Putin whatever parts of Ukraine he wanted. Trump is also well known to have wanted to take the US out of NATO altogether, which would have solved Putin's Ukraine problem in a different way. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 9, 2023 16:57:06 GMT
Yeah.
The man is a crook.
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 9, 2023 18:16:44 GMT
Well you dont seem to care when Israel invades Palestine with the intention of taking control of all of Palestine. In fact you repeatedly deny it has happened continuously since 1948. 1948? Oh, you mean after the Palestinian Arabs rejected the two state solution and followed that with the war when 5 Arab armies and a group of Palestinian Arab fighters tried to annihilate Israel. And Israel was still not free of the threat of annihilation from the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab nations even after they won the war for survival. Funny how you get your information so mixed up. No. When 600,000 palestinoans were forced out of their land, as you well know but refuse to acknowledge. I cant have a dscussion with someone who seems to have selective dementia. You are hereby ignored. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 9, 2023 18:17:25 GMT
The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. I must have missed it. And Russia thinks that they have a promise from the West not to extend the reach of NATO further east. The war in Ukraine is obviously a complete failure of diplomacy between the EU and Russia. It only happened because Biden is so pro-EU. If Trump had been president he would have got the two sides together and sorted it out before it came to war. When they elected into power a government with the policy of joining the EU? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 9, 2023 18:48:07 GMT
The people of Ukraine decided what they wanted to do - it was a not choice for Russia to make. When did the people of the Ukraine decide to join the EU? I must have missed it. And Russia thinks that they have a promise from the West not to extend the reach of NATO further east. The war in Ukraine is obviously a complete failure of diplomacy between the EU and Russia. It only happened because Biden is so pro-EU. If Trump had been president he would have got the two sides together and sorted it out before it came to war. They never did AFAIA. They did want to sign up to a greater trading agreement with the EU. All Yanukovych had to do in 1913 was to sign the already agreed and written up agreement. Yes I heard that was the case, But there is a huge BUT, Russia keeps trying to take control of other countries' when they are not doing it physically they are doing it politically or by coercion. Can I take it as already understood that there never was a country called Russia, the term Russia comes from a term used outside of the empire to describe those inside the empire, something to do with term Russ connected to the area where the empire was most active. Edit: EU not the UN. |
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