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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 7, 2023 12:07:45 GMT
Marching for peace on Armistice day shouldn't be controversial.
Banning a peace march on Armistice day would be.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2023 12:12:21 GMT
I think you will find these people are marching for 'peace on their terms' rather than peace per-se
I haven't seen any significant contingent (for instance) arguing that Hamas should surrender unconditionally. Adolf Hitler was also a big supporter of 'peace on his terms'
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 7, 2023 12:18:38 GMT
This seems to be the latest media storm so lets try to understand what is happening here. Some people wish to exercise their democratic rights to express their view that the UK Government should call for a ceasefire to end the violence in Gaza. Whether you agree with their view or not, it seems a legitimate cause given that c 5000 children have been killed in the last month alone. This Sunday is Rememberance Sunday and commemorations will be held in London and elsewhere as normal on Sunday. In recent years we have for some reason developed a habit of also commemorating 11 November as well as Rememberance Sunday so further ceremonies will take place this year on Saturday 11th November at 11am. Both Rememberance events will centre on Whitehall. That's all fine. There is also planned to be a March in support of a ceasefire in Gaza on Saturday. It will start later in the day than the Rememberance ceremony and take place in a different part of London. All you would think relatively uncontroversial. Except that our Home Secretary supported by a weak Prime Minister and her allies in the Tabloid Press have been trying to create an issue that really shouldn't exist. They are stoking up hate and fear and nationalism out of very little. One GB News presenter even suggests this is the start of a civil war. As a result every chance now that right wing drunken yobs will infest London itching for a fight and every chance there will be some serious issues. Meanwhile on this forum some of the usual suspects have been manipulated as usual into an orgy of outrage using language that would have been shocking just a few years ago. The question is then, why are Braverman and Sunak and their allies in the tabloids deliberately trying to provoke a conflict on the streets of our capital this weekend. It can only be a power play - either hoping to divert attention with an election round the corner from the Government's abject record on running the country or simply early skirmishes in the battle for the future of the Conservative Party. Either way pretty appalling stuff. LOL! It hasn't even started yet and already Dippy's trying to blame the inevitable violence on a fictitious "Far right". No surprise there. But what is a surprise is that these anti-Semitic hate marches are being allowed to take place at all. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 7, 2023 12:28:58 GMT
I think you will find these people are marching for 'peace on their terms' rather than peace per-se I haven't seen any significant contingent (for instance) arguing that Hamas should surrender unconditionally. Adolf Hitler was also a big supporter of 'peace on his terms' And he was also quite keen to recruit Islamists to his cause. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2023 12:39:08 GMT
This seems to be the latest media storm so lets try to understand what is happening here. Some people wish to exercise their democratic rights to express their view that the UK Government should call for a ceasefire to end the violence in Gaza. Whether you agree with their view or not, it seems a legitimate cause given that c 5000 children have been killed in the last month alone. This Sunday is Rememberance Sunday and commemorations will be held in London and elsewhere as normal on Sunday. In recent years we have for some reason developed a habit of also commemorating 11 November as well as Rememberance Sunday so further ceremonies will take place this year on Saturday 11th November at 11am. Both Rememberance events will centre on Whitehall. That's all fine. There is also planned to be a March in support of a ceasefire in Gaza on Saturday. It will start later in the day than the Rememberance ceremony and take place in a different part of London. All you would think relatively uncontroversial. Except that our Home Secretary supported by a weak Prime Minister and her allies in the Tabloid Press have been trying to create an issue that really shouldn't exist. They are stoking up hate and fear and nationalism out of very little. One GB News presenter even suggests this is the start of a civil war. As a result every chance now that right wing drunken yobs will infest London itching for a fight and every chance there will be some serious issues. Meanwhile on this forum some of the usual suspects have been manipulated as usual into an orgy of outrage using language that would have been shocking just a few years ago. The question is then, why are Braverman and Sunak and their allies in the tabloids deliberately trying to provoke a conflict on the streets of our capital this weekend. It can only be a power play - either hoping to divert attention with an election round the corner from the Government's abject record on running the country or simply early skirmishes in the battle for the future of the Conservative Party. Either way pretty appalling stuff. LOL! It hasn't even started yet and already Dippy's trying to blame the inevitable violence on a fictitious "Far right". No surprise there. But what is a surprise is that these anti-Semitic hate marches are being allowed to take place at all. Presumably Squeezed doesn't think that Braverman and the tabloids campaign to promote division and hatred this week is likely (indeed designed) to provoke idiots to go on the streets looking for a fight. There was a time when idiotic language such as his would be the preserve of keyboard warriors. Now it is spread to politicians holding great offices of state. Scary what we are in danger of becoming all to climb the greasy pole. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Nov 7, 2023 12:49:39 GMT
Orac
I don't know what opportunities the families and the 4,000 children killed in Gaza so far were given to surrender (unconditionally or otherwise) but any argument that additional options should be available to you because you happen to be a Hamas member would seem a bit weak to me, and it doesn't surprise me if it's failed to garner any noticeable support.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2023 13:18:17 GMT
Orac I don't know what opportunities the families and the 4,000 children killed in Gaza so far were given to surrender (unconditionally or otherwise) but any argument that additional options should be available to you because you happen to be a Hamas member would seem a bit weak to me, and it doesn't surprise me if it's failed to garner any noticeable support. Hamas is unable to surrender? I don't think you will find that's the case - they have spokesmen etc |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 7, 2023 13:38:30 GMT
If the marchers actually were calling for peace they would be calling for Hamas to give up their hostages - including children and old people. If Hamas were to do this then there could be a ceasefire. But they're NOT. The marchers are calling for armed jihad and death to the Jews and "From the river to sea, Palestinians will be free" (i.e. remove the Jews from Israel) and Intifada (armed uprising against the "occupation" of Gaza and the West Bank. And they're attacking veterans selling poppies and attacking the police and damaging statues and pouring red paint over buildings. ET cetera. This is not a peace march dappy. This is a march in support of the terrorists Hanas. And anyone who joins it should be locked up for the simple reason that Hamas is a proscribed organisation. That's the law. ANd the treatment of the EDL was a clear illustration of how politically biased the police are. Even when the EDL were granted the right to a peaceful demonstration the muslims gathered a mob of thugs and attacked them. And who did the police arrest? EDL of course, because they were too shit scared to arrest the fucking muslims. And EDL are not a far-right organisation - they're an anti-islam organisation. They're "Islamophobes" in a word. And I've got news for you dappy - islamophobia is perfectly legal. In fact anyone who isn't an islamophobe is a neo-nazi. Anyone who supports islam in this country is asking for a religious war in which anyone of different religion is attacked. It’s already happening in fact with the attacks on the Hindus up north and the hounding of Christians who try to exercise their own right to free speech.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 7, 2023 13:56:31 GMT
Presumably Squeezed doesn't think that Braverman and the tabloids campaign to promote division and hatred this week is likely (indeed designed) to provoke idiots to go on the streets looking for a fight... Presumably Dappy doesn't realise that anti-Semitic hate marches are already doing that. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2023 13:57:18 GMT
Marching for peace on Armistice day shouldn't be controversial. Banning a peace march on Armistice day would be. That is if it is a march for peace, and not just more Israelophobia as seen ever since they lost the war to destroy Israel. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 7, 2023 15:09:32 GMT
Marching for peace on Armistice day shouldn't be controversial. Banning a peace march on Armistice day would be. That is if it is a march for peace, and not just more Israelophobia as seen ever since they lost the war to destroy Israel. As far as I'm aware it is a march calling for a ceasefire. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 7, 2023 15:15:42 GMT
That is if it is a march for peace, and not just more Israelophobia as seen ever since they lost the war to destroy Israel. As far as I'm aware it is a march calling for a ceasefire. If so, why aren't they calling on Hamas to release the hostages? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 15:40:18 GMT
That is if it is a march for peace, and not just more Israelophobia as seen ever since they lost the war to destroy Israel. As far as I'm aware it is a march calling for a ceasefire. Fair comment. palestinecampaign.org/events/national-march-for-palestine-stop-the-war-on-gaza/Now I'll make a fair comment. Look at the rest of that website. It is clearly anti Israel. So when they are calling for a ceasefire they are trying to hamstring Israel, before they can get the job done, which is: Releasing 242 hostages from many different countries. Removing Hamas as their enemy in Gaza. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2023 16:28:08 GMT
Which illustrates the point that it depends who is legitimately protesting. Most of us have different opinions on who is evil, good, right, wrong and should be banned. However legitimate protest belongs to us all, or it does not. Propagating extremism is definitely both unnecessary and dangerous. Intelligent individuals avoid it. Helping young people to avoid being pulled into extremism is just commonsense. Of course but then what is what is opinion. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2023 17:48:18 GMT
Marching for peace on Armistice day shouldn't be controversial. Banning a peace march on Armistice day would be. odd kind of peace march - calling for jihad, genocide, intifada and promoting violence against anyone who suggest that Hamas are terrorists.. ..wonder what a hate march would look like..  |
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