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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 17:29:40 GMT
Once the idea of importing cheap labour is seen for what it is ..a short term fix with long term problems supported by leftie ideology then ways might be considered that would actually benefit society.
A living wage , a nationwide vocational training scheme that is meaningful and not exploitive, build more accommodation for rent and embracing / developing technology .
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2023 17:49:07 GMT
There was a time when the Left supported wage rises. How things have changed now they openingly admit they don't believe a person's labour is worth paying for and would rather import labour at half the cost. They're no friends of the working class, this New Left mob. If you are referring to Labour I agree with you. I simply disagree that economically speaking Labour is on the left anymore it all. It has been stolen from the working classes by affluent middle class liberals. It is no longer the party of the working class that it used to be. It is now the party of aspirational, affluent, middle class liberals who do just fine out of the economic status quo, and holds the working class in contempt to a large degree, thinking we are all racists and thickoes and bigots. I agree with this. Here is a good video by the journalist Michael Collins about how the Labour Party have abandoned the Working Class |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 3, 2023 17:49:21 GMT
Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses. The least well off in todays society are unskilled workers on low incomes, minimum wages, poverty is rising amongst this section of society, as is debt, evictions, mental health issues, other ilnesses and family / relationship breakdowns. The largest portion of benefits are not paid to the unemployed, or to those that cannot work, the largest portion of benefit payments goes to working people, those on low incomes, help with rent, working tax credits, and other income support. Eh? You call the OAP pension of about £200 per week well off and with large disposable incomes? Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses.Are you for real? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 19:02:03 GMT
Once the idea of importing cheap labour is seen for what it is ..a short term fix with long term problems supported by leftie ideology then ways might be considered that would actually benefit society. A living wage , a nationwide vocational training scheme that is meaningful and not exploitive, build more accommodation for rent and embracing / developing technology . Can't argue with that. Most low paid jobs only exist because of low pay. If you doubt that just look how pub prices have rocketed and how many have sadly gone under with 12% wages rises. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 19:03:02 GMT
Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses. The least well off in todays society are unskilled workers on low incomes, minimum wages, poverty is rising amongst this section of society, as is debt, evictions, mental health issues, other ilnesses and family / relationship breakdowns. The largest portion of benefits are not paid to the unemployed, or to those that cannot work, the largest portion of benefit payments goes to working people, those on low incomes, help with rent, working tax credits, and other income support. Eh? You call the OAP pension of about £200 per week well off and with large disposable incomes? Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses.Are you for real? You don't know many OAP's do you. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 19:51:35 GMT
Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses. The least well off in todays society are unskilled workers on low incomes, minimum wages, poverty is rising amongst this section of society, as is debt, evictions, mental health issues, other ilnesses and family / relationship breakdowns. The largest portion of benefits are not paid to the unemployed, or to those that cannot work, the largest portion of benefit payments goes to working people, those on low incomes, help with rent, working tax credits, and other income support. Eh? You call the OAP pension of about £200 per week well off and with large disposable incomes? Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses.Are you for real? Are you for real? Many pensioners have private pensions on top of that and those that don't have a minimum income guarantee, winter fuel payments, rent and council tax paid, and free bus travel. Average pensioner income is now higher than average worker income, and most of them have no dependents to look after, mortgages to pay or travel to work expenses. And those who still do some work pay much less tax than the working age population on similar incomes because they are exempt from NI payments. They get free prescriptions too. Not all pensioners are well off, far from it, but there is very little real pensioner poverty today. Most of the growing poverty in this country is amongst working age people, including many in work |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 19:59:35 GMT
Which causes a real problem for the future .
If future State pensions are means tested then it will take away ( some of)the motivation to contribute to a private pension .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 20:04:01 GMT
Eh? You call the OAP pension of about £200 per week well off and with large disposable incomes? Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses.Are you for real? You don't know many OAP's do you. Indeed. My mum has struggled all her life, but since retirement she has more money than she knows what to do with and by her own admission is far better off than she ever was in work. Her current account now has nearly 5k in it because she is getting more coming in than she knows how to spend. She gets a state pension, has a small private pension, gets pensioner credit, attendance allowance, rent and council tax paid off in full, twice yearly cost of living payments plus winter fuel payments, free prescriptions and free bus travel. It has been decades since I encountered a genuinely poor pensioner as there used to be a lot of back when I was young in the 80s. Some of them will sometimes plead poverty as I heard one elderly gent doing whilst talking to his mate about how he had to choose between eating and heating. This was shortly after I had stood behind him in the local newsagent apparently able to waste over £30 on lottery tickets and scratchcards. I don't buy this shit about pensioner poverty, which is usually pensioner sense of entitlement masquerading as poverty |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 20:06:11 GMT
Which causes a real problem for the future . If future State pensions are means tested then it will take away ( some of)the motivation to contribute to a private pension . I doubt it. Most people want a nice retirement and don't base that on the basic state pension |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2023 20:06:56 GMT
Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . Sorry, but you are posting utter nonsense If a factory employs people at the National Minimum Wage, and offers the SAME wage to European workers who would work alongside British workers, then how is it "cheap labour". ? The leisure, hospitality, catering, care and food sectors will only offer the Minimum Wage, the first employer to offer substantially more will instantly make themselves more expensive than their competitors. If there is a labour shortage, it is never fixed by raising wages, it can only be fixed by finding people to fill the labour shortage. There is no going rate for anything. If you cannot get a worker to clean your toilets you offer an increasing salary until the position is filled. If you draw on the world for your labour then you will always have an endless line of people prepared to accept the Minimum Wage which is exactly why it was brought in. If we did not have a Minimum Wage labour would be sold as required, sometimes the times are good for workers, sometimes bad for workers. The present system removes the good times from workers by extending the workforce pool abroad. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 20:07:26 GMT
You don't know many OAP's do you. Indeed. My mum has struggled all her life, but since retirement she has more money than she knows what to do with and by her own admission is far better off than she ever was in work. Her current account now has nearly 5k in it because she is getting more coming in than she knows how to spend. She gets a state pension, has a small private pension, gets pensioner credit, attendance allowance, rent and council tax paid off in full, twice yearly cost of living payments plus winter fuel payments, free prescriptions and free bus travel. It has been decades since I encountered a genuinely poor pensioner as there used to be a lot of back when I was young in the 80s. Some of them will sometimes plead poverty as I heard one elderly gent doing whilst talking to his mate about how he had to choose between eating and heating. This was shortly after I had stood behind him in the local newsagent apparently able to waste over £30 on lottery tickets and scratchcards. I don't buy this shit about pensioner poverty, which is usually pensioner sense of entitlement masquerading as poverty Agreed. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2023 20:16:01 GMT
You don't know many OAP's do you. Indeed. My mum has struggled all her life, but since retirement she has more money than she knows what to do with and by her own admission is far better off than she ever was in work. Her current account now has nearly 5k in it because she is getting more coming in than she knows how to spend. She gets a state pension, has a small private pension, gets pensioner credit, attendance allowance, rent and council tax paid off in full, twice yearly cost of living payments plus winter fuel payments, free prescriptions and free bus travel. It has been decades since I encountered a genuinely poor pensioner as there used to be a lot of back when I was young in the 80s. Some of them will sometimes plead poverty as I heard one elderly gent doing whilst talking to his mate about how he had to choose between eating and heating. This was shortly after I had stood behind him in the local newsagent apparently able to waste over £30 on lottery tickets and scratchcards. I don't buy this shit about pensioner poverty, which is usually pensioner sense of entitlement masquerading as poverty How does she get pensioner credit ajd I assume the attendance allowance is becasue she is in some way disabled. As regards a pensioner wasting £30 on lottery tickets I made the same accusation as regards those on food banks and moan about wages whilst settling down to Sky films at night. I was called a bigot. My wife had 33 years NI but only gets an 80% pension, some NI was purloined by one employer. Her sister who rarely worked being either a stay at home mum or single parent gets a full pension. |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 3, 2023 20:20:15 GMT
Eh? You call the OAP pension of about £200 per week well off and with large disposable incomes? Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses.Are you for real? Are you for real? Many pensioners have private pensions on top of that and those that don't have a minimum income guarantee, winter fuel payments, rent and council tax paid, and free bus travel. Average pensioner income is now higher than average worker income, and most of them have no dependents to look after, mortgages to pay or travel to work expenses. And those who still do some work pay much less tax than the working age population on similar incomes because they are exempt from NI payments. They get free prescriptions too. Not all pensioners are well off, far from it, but there is very little real pensioner poverty today. Most of the growing poverty in this country is amongst working age people, including many in work The OAP pension is funded from the national pot and is somewhere around £200 a week ie £10000 a year , lefties like you apparently think this makes them well off , normal people know it is peanuts- private sector pensions are not funded from the national pot so bugger all to do with government spending Or maybe if you are goalpost moving in true leftie style ,we should include the cash bundles that many benefit spongers trouser from cash jobs whilst supposedly unemployed/job hunting /crotch goblin keeping on top of getting fortunes in out of work benefits? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 20:31:33 GMT
Which causes a real problem for the future . If future State pensions are means tested then it will take away ( some of)the motivation to contribute to a private pension . I doubt it. Most people want a nice retirement and don't base that on the basic state pension It depends on the terms . If you need to have a million pound pension pot then it might not matter . If it’s 100K then it will . Trouble is that governments change goalposts . |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 20:31:57 GMT
Are you for real? Many pensioners have private pensions on top of that and those that don't have a minimum income guarantee, winter fuel payments, rent and council tax paid, and free bus travel. Average pensioner income is now higher than average worker income, and most of them have no dependents to look after, mortgages to pay or travel to work expenses. And those who still do some work pay much less tax than the working age population on similar incomes because they are exempt from NI payments. They get free prescriptions too. Not all pensioners are well off, far from it, but there is very little real pensioner poverty today. Most of the growing poverty in this country is amongst working age people, including many in work The OAP pension is funded from the national pot and is somewhere around £200 a week ie £10000 a year , lefties like you apparently think this makes them well off , normal people know it is peanuts- private sector pensions are not funded from the national pot so bugger all to do with government spending Or maybe if you are goalpost moving in true leftie style ,we should include the cash bundles that many benefit spongers trouser from cash jobs whilst supposedly unemployed/job hunting /crotch goblin keeping on top of getting fortunes in out of work benefits? You talk about spongers trousering cash without for a moment acknowledging all the taxpayer dosh being shovelled your way. I guess everyone's a sponger unless its you doing it, when suddenly you aint getting the chance to trouser nearly enough. Pensioners have never been as well off as they are now. |
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