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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 13:16:12 GMT
The state has been topping up workers low pay for generations, it is not anything new.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 3, 2023 13:35:21 GMT
Pensioners have never, ever been better off as they are now, they are the section of society with the largest disposable incomes, with annual rises in pensions guaranteed. The Winter Fuel Allowance, free bus travel, many with free TV licenses. The least well off in todays society are unskilled workers on low incomes, minimum wages, poverty is rising amongst this section of society, as is debt, evictions, mental health issues, other ilnesses and family / relationship breakdowns. The largest portion of benefits are not paid to the unemployed, or to those that cannot work, the largest portion of benefit payments goes to working people, those on low incomes, help with rent, working tax credits, and other income support. So you agree that importing more, thereby making that situation worse, is bad? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 14:10:42 GMT
The state has been topping up workers low pay for generations, it is not anything new. No one has argued otherwise . So importing more cheap labour is ok? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 15:20:53 GMT
There was a time when the Left supported wage rises. How things have changed now they openingly admit they don't believe a person's labour is worth paying for and would rather import labour at half the cost. They're no friends of the working class, this New Left mob. If you are referring to Labour I agree with you. I simply disagree that economically speaking Labour is on the left anymore it all. It has been stolen from the working classes by affluent middle class liberals. It is no longer the party of the working class that it used to be. It is now the party of aspirational, affluent, middle class liberals who do just fine out of the economic status quo, and holds the working class in contempt to a large degree, thinking we are all racists and thickoes and bigots. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 15:25:50 GMT
The state has been topping up workers low pay for generations, it is not anything new. Indeed. But it has gotten progressively worse with more people in insecure or part time employment, often low paid yet, with rocketing housing costs. There was once a time when even at the lower end of the pay scale, a single bread winner earnt enough with costs like rent low enough to be able to afford to raise a family. Now both partners have to work just to afford to live themselves. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 15:30:53 GMT
No I'm claiming raising wages causes inflation. Stopping inflation lowers wages. The stupid idea was that imported cheap labour meant bosses getting loads of money. When it actually meant cheap prices. So stop giving wage rises to everyone who works in the public sector, welfare recipients and pensioners - and voila, you have solved your problem. Till you need a nurse or a doctor or your bins emptied. I expect you're really fit and don't need any public services. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 15:46:37 GMT
brilliant isn't it. Cut the work force, brilliant Idea, make businesses pay proper wages. Oh wait, wages are rising too fast and causing inflation. Raise interest rates to cut demand, get rid of jobs and lower inflation. Joined up thinking? Jeez. Exploitative business models based on endless cheap labour through immigration are unsustainable.
Eventually, the infrastructure required to support the population becomes so expensive that taxes have to rise, which means that wages have to rise, which pushes up inflation.
Simple enough, this economics business.
Yes that is the result. How does it help the low paid? And worse if your method of reducing inflation is take money from the low paid and give it to the very richest. Makes no sense. So make business pay better wages Tick. Poor have more money Tick Take that money and give it to those with loads already WHAT! |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 3, 2023 15:50:08 GMT
Exploitative business models based on endless cheap labour through immigration are unsustainable. Eventually, the infrastructure required to support the population becomes so expensive that taxes have to rise, which means that wages have to rise, which pushes up inflation. Simple enough, this economics business.
Yes that is the result. How does it help the low paid?.. It doesn't. Glad we agree. I've no idea what the rest of your post was about, however... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 15:51:48 GMT
The state has been topping up workers low pay for generations, it is not anything new. No one has argued otherwise . So importing more cheap labour is ok? There is no such thing as "cheap labour" in a country which has a Minimum Wage of £10.42 Per Hour, it is the standard going rate for the vast majority of employees in unskilled work. The many Europeans who filled a large proportion of these kinds of jobs were offered the same rate of pay as British people, not lower. The catering establishment where I work, had to put up all its menu prices in April when the new National Minimum Wage rate came into effect, as did thousands of other businesses. Its all very well proclaiming (falsely) that raising wages higher and higher due to labour shortages is good for employees, but its not good for businesses or consumers, and employees are also consumers. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 15:55:44 GMT
There was a time when the Left supported wage rises. How things have changed now they openingly admit they don't believe a person's labour is worth paying for and would rather import labour at half the cost. They're no friends of the working class, this New Left mob. If you are referring to Labour I agree with you. I simply disagree that economically speaking Labour is on the left anymore it all. It has been stolen from the working classes by affluent middle class liberals. It is no longer the party of the working class that it used to be. It is now the party of aspirational, affluent, middle class liberals who do just fine out of the economic status quo, and holds the working class in contempt to a large degree, thinking we are all racists and thickoes and bigots. SRB Please try and stay a little on subject I am talking about what is currently happening, which should annoy you enough. We send EU workers home to raise demand for workers and therefore increase pay. This supposedly stops greedy bosses using cheap Labour. In reality most businesses don't make much profit so they are forced to put up prices driving inflation. At least inflation effects those with money more than those without. (Good) But wait. Lets stop evil inflation by increasing the cost of borrowing (Not future borrowing) No but money the poor are already committed to. So net result. Small businesses give money to poor workers who hand it onto rich bankers. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 16:28:48 GMT
No one has argued otherwise . So importing more cheap labour is ok? There is no such thing as "cheap labour" in a country which has a Minimum Wage of £10.42 Per Hour, it is the standard going rate for the vast majority of employees in unskilled work. The many Europeans who filled a large proportion of these kinds of jobs were offered the same rate of pay as British people, not lower. The catering establishment where I work, had to put up all its menu prices in April when the new National Minimum Wage rate came into effect, as did thousands of other businesses. Its all very well proclaiming (falsely) that raising wages higher and higher due to labour shortages is good for employees, but its not good for businesses or consumers, and employees are also consumers. Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 16:45:25 GMT
There is no such thing as "cheap labour" in a country which has a Minimum Wage of £10.42 Per Hour, it is the standard going rate for the vast majority of employees in unskilled work. The many Europeans who filled a large proportion of these kinds of jobs were offered the same rate of pay as British people, not lower. The catering establishment where I work, had to put up all its menu prices in April when the new National Minimum Wage rate came into effect, as did thousands of other businesses. Its all very well proclaiming (falsely) that raising wages higher and higher due to labour shortages is good for employees, but its not good for businesses or consumers, and employees are also consumers. Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . I agree. On paper its a good idea, but in reality it stopped being the minimum wage and became the wage. A number that every pub, restaurant, club etc could rely on to be the same as their competitors were offering. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 17:18:01 GMT
There is no such thing as "cheap labour" in a country which has a Minimum Wage of £10.42 Per Hour, it is the standard going rate for the vast majority of employees in unskilled work. The many Europeans who filled a large proportion of these kinds of jobs were offered the same rate of pay as British people, not lower. The catering establishment where I work, had to put up all its menu prices in April when the new National Minimum Wage rate came into effect, as did thousands of other businesses. Its all very well proclaiming (falsely) that raising wages higher and higher due to labour shortages is good for employees, but its not good for businesses or consumers, and employees are also consumers. Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . Sorry, but you are posting utter nonsense If a factory employs people at the National Minimum Wage, and offers the SAME wage to European workers who would work alongside British workers, then how is it "cheap labour". ? The leisure, hospitality, catering, care and food sectors will only offer the Minimum Wage, the first employer to offer substantially more will instantly make themselves more expensive than their competitors. If there is a labour shortage, it is never fixed by raising wages, it can only be fixed by finding people to fill the labour shortage. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2023 17:21:27 GMT
Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . Sorry, but you are posting utter nonsense If a factory employs people at the National Minimum Wage, and offers the SAME wage to European workers who would work alongside British workers, then how is it "cheap labour". ? The leisure, hospitality, catering, care and food sectors will only offer the Minimum Wage, the first employer to offer substantially more will instantly make themselves more expensive than their competitors. If there is a labour shortage, it is never fixed by raising wages, it can only be fixed by finding people to fill the labour shortage. I'm a leftie Sid, but I have to pick you up here. The Minimum wage is a low wage. So if a factory couldn't get minimum wage EU workers they would need to pay more than minimum wage. Thus EU workers theoretically hold wages at the minimum. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 17:23:09 GMT
Don’t be ridiculous . Minimum wage becomes standard wage . Europeans used to working for peanuts in their own country would work any hours that the boss demanded , ignored health and safety and even trained for extra skills for the same wage . I wish you lefties would not make up false claims ( as highlighted ) . Sorry, but you are posting utter nonsense If a factory employs people at the National Minimum Wage, and offers the SAME wage to European workers who would work alongside British workers, then how is it "cheap labour". ? The leisure, hospitality, catering, care and food sectors will only offer the Minimum Wage, the first employer to offer substantially more will instantly make themselves more expensive than their competitors. If there is a labour shortage, it is never fixed by raising wages, it can only be fixed by finding people to fill the labour shortage. For the reasons in the post you answered . Importing cheap labour is a short term fix with long term consequences. You are the one posting nonsense . |
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