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Post by Bentley on Nov 1, 2023 15:08:03 GMT
I’d abandon your habit of claiming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you are somehow foolish or immature . Please reply to what you read instead of indulging in false made up nonsense ^^^ I attacked the use of referendums by the UK. i.e. "the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum". I should have known better than to try to indulge in grown up debate with yourself. You took my post and posted a reply that was not only completely out of context but did nothing but reflect your alleged superiority over others . ”plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum.”…sheesh Your post did support my point that democracy didn’t exist and as well as adding another point that so many like you do not want democracy . So well done for that anyway . |
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Post by see2 on Nov 1, 2023 15:09:55 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. I agree calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. Starmer and Sunak may be abysmal, but they are different and only one has been in office and proved the accusation. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 1, 2023 15:27:23 GMT
Please reply to what you read instead of indulging in false made up nonsense ^^^ I attacked the use of referendums by the UK. i.e. "the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum". I should have known better than to try to indulge in grown up debate with yourself. You took my post and posted a reply that was not only completely out of context but did nothing but reflect your alleged superiority over others . ”plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum.”…sheesh Your post did support my point that democracy didn’t exist and as well as adding another point that so many like you do not want democracy . So well done for that anyway . Yes I was unsure about your original post AND SAID SO. My so called "alleged superiority over others" "alleged" by whom? It is of course, just more of your phantasy thinking. The easily led electorate is an obvious, Thatcher in office for 11 years despite the economic and social damage she did, she had to be off loaded by her own party, that's how easily led the electorate can be. so that was a fair comment. Cutting off a relevant part of my sentence in an attempt to create a false insinuation is just disgusting. The only foolishness I referred to was -- "the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum". So do at least make an effort to be honest. |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 1, 2023 15:33:51 GMT
The Trump coup claim is a laugh, a number of the people arrested had a lot of weapons yet did not bring any just enthusiastic protesters that got carried away and should have had more sense. The Democrats decided to politicise it to maximum effect to undermine any serious efforts to investigate election fraud.
Most of the non-Democracies are where the military and police are too close to the government of the day so effectively prevent any political opposition.
The West use the media to destroy any would be nationalists though lost this on Brexit yet remember they labelled us as xenophobes and racists before accepting the vote.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 1, 2023 15:40:27 GMT
You took my post and posted a reply that was not only completely out of context but did nothing but reflect your alleged superiority over others . ”plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum.”…sheesh Your post did support my point that democracy didn’t exist and as well as adding another point that so many like you do not want democracy . So well done for that anyway . Yes I was unsure about your original post AND SAID SO. My so called "alleged superiority over others" "alleged" by whom? It is of course, just more of your phantasy thinking. The easily led electorate is an obvious, Thatcher in office for 11 years despite the economic and social damage she did, she had to be off loaded by her own party, that's how easily led the electorate can be. so that was a fair comment. Cutting off a relevant part of my sentence in an attempt to create a false insinuation is just disgusting. The only foolishness I referred to was -- "the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum". So do at least make an effort to be honest. “plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum” was your fantasy and one you repeat ad nauseum in one form or another . No false insinuation here . This is a perfect example of the deluded believing others are the deluded ones . Real democracy depends on the losers to respect the winners . For the nays to support the yays and vice versa. So many ex remainers seemed to forget this from the point that they lost the referendum. That’s why or maybe at least a sign that democracy doesn’t exist . Move on . |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 16:33:28 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. I have never said anyone who does not vote the way I want is stupid. That itself is an idiotic canard. Stupid people vote for whoever for all sorts of stupid reasons, some of them even for the people I might support. And plenty of intelligent people dont vote my way. How people vote is not a definition of stupidity. There are however a great many idiots voting who are easiliy fooled by any old shite. And who lack the knowledge or reasoning to have an informed opinion, whomever they vote for. Democracy everywhere is on the wane, mostly being destroyed from within by idiots voting for whatever for idiotic reasons, persuaded into believing absolute tosh increasingly often by bad actors on the internet. So it is no longer simply home grown wealthy elites telling the idiots how to vote, but enemy states are at it too. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 16:43:15 GMT
Yes I was unsure about your original post AND SAID SO. My so called "alleged superiority over others" "alleged" by whom? It is of course, just more of your phantasy thinking. The easily led electorate is an obvious, Thatcher in office for 11 years despite the economic and social damage she did, she had to be off loaded by her own party, that's how easily led the electorate can be. so that was a fair comment. Cutting off a relevant part of my sentence in an attempt to create a false insinuation is just disgusting. The only foolishness I referred to was -- "the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum". So do at least make an effort to be honest. “plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum” was your fantasy and one you repeat ad nauseum in one form or another . No false insinuation here . This is a perfect example of the deluded believing others are the deluded ones . Real democracy depends on the losers to respect the winners . For the nays to support the yays and vice versa. So many ex remainers seemed to forget this from the point that they lost the referendum. That’s why or maybe at least a sign that democracy doesn’t exist . Move on . Believing Brexit to be a damaging mistake is a legitimate and permissible opinion for anyone in a free country to have. If Brexit were proving to be an obvious success such opinions would gradually disappear. That it appears to be a disaster merely encourages such opinions. Anyone can lose a democratic vote but that does not mean that they have to agree with the winners. The winners get their way but the losers are perfectly free to campaign to change something back again if they want to. That is their choice. Whether or not there will ever be a move to rejoin the EU or get closer to it economically will largely be determined by how well or badly Brexit is seen to work. And if it is not going as well as some would like, that is not the fault of disgruntled Remainers who are merely exercising their right to express a differing opinion in a free country. Because it is not them in charge. The Brexiteers are in charge of the government and in charge of the country. So if Brexit isnt working it is either the fault of Brexit itself or of the Brexiteers in charge of it. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 1, 2023 16:59:12 GMT
“plus an easily led electorate, exposed the foolishness of this country indulging in referendum” was your fantasy and one you repeat ad nauseum in one form or another . No false insinuation here . This is a perfect example of the deluded believing others are the deluded ones . Real democracy depends on the losers to respect the winners . For the nays to support the yays and vice versa. So many ex remainers seemed to forget this from the point that they lost the referendum. That’s why or maybe at least a sign that democracy doesn’t exist . Move on . Believing Brexit to be a damaging mistake is a legitimate and permissible opinion for anyone in a free country to have. If Brexit were proving to be an obvious success such opinions would gradually disappear. That it appears to be a disaster merely encourages such opinions. Anyone can lose a democratic vote but that does not mean that they have to agree with the winners. The winners get their way but the losers are perfectly free to campaign to change something back again if they want to. That is their choice. Whether or not there will ever be a move to rejoin the EU or get closer to it economically will largely be determined by how well or badly Brexit is seen to work. And if it is not going as well as some would like, that is not the fault of disgruntled Remainers who are merely exercising their right to express a differing opinion in a free country. Because it is not them in charge. The Brexiteers are in charge of the government and in charge of the country. So if Brexit isnt working it is either the fault of Brexit itself or of the Brexiteers in charge of it. Another one missing the point . This isn’t about whether Brexit was right or wrong . It’s about democracy and democracy needs the losing side to accept the result of the vote . I never addressed whether we should or should not have left the EU. I’m not interested in yet another pontification by disgruntled losers of a democratic process either . If a democratic decision is taken and the losing side does not embrace the decision then democracy has failed . |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 1, 2023 18:30:22 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. I have never said anyone who does not vote the way I want is stupid. That itself is an idiotic canard. Stupid people vote for whoever for all sorts of stupid reasons, some of them even for the people I might support. And plenty of intelligent people dont vote my way. How people vote is not a definition of stupidity. There are however a great many idiots voting who are easiliy fooled by any old shite. And who lack the knowledge or reasoning to have an informed opinion, whomever they vote for. Democracy everywhere is on the wane, mostly being destroyed from within by idiots voting for whatever for idiotic reasons, persuaded into believing absolute tosh increasingly often by bad actors on the internet. So it is no longer simply home grown wealthy elites telling the idiots how to vote, but enemy states are at it too. Democracy is on the wane everywhere becasue it requires three basic conditions, there has to be a degree of homogeneity in the electorate, there has to be freedom to pass on information to the electorate and there has to be an acceptance of the result. The homogeneity has to be there as whatever is voted for it has to be easily seen that whomsoever gains power it has to be seen that he is of the electorate and it is right and proper that he governs. Having a multi-ethnic and multicultural electorate destroys that homogeneity as too easily some can say I have no representation, and that accusation has been made quite lot. Information has to be freely available and has to be presented evenhandedly. Both of those conditions have a very large effect on the acceptance of the result part. The 'idiocy' of the way some vote is why the three conditions are very important. The homogeneity has been destroyed through multiculturalism, information dissemination is subject to all sorts of abuse and we all know the Brexit result was never accepted by a sizable and powerful portion of the electorate. With all three conditions met then the 'idiot vote' will become of no consequence. However realistically an 'idiot vote' is very much a subjective issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 18:59:41 GMT
Believing Brexit to be a damaging mistake is a legitimate and permissible opinion for anyone in a free country to have. If Brexit were proving to be an obvious success such opinions would gradually disappear. That it appears to be a disaster merely encourages such opinions. Anyone can lose a democratic vote but that does not mean that they have to agree with the winners. The winners get their way but the losers are perfectly free to campaign to change something back again if they want to. That is their choice. Whether or not there will ever be a move to rejoin the EU or get closer to it economically will largely be determined by how well or badly Brexit is seen to work. And if it is not going as well as some would like, that is not the fault of disgruntled Remainers who are merely exercising their right to express a differing opinion in a free country. Because it is not them in charge. The Brexiteers are in charge of the government and in charge of the country. So if Brexit isnt working it is either the fault of Brexit itself or of the Brexiteers in charge of it. Another one missing the point . This isn’t about whether Brexit was right or wrong . It’s about democracy and democracy needs the losing side to accept the result of the vote . I never addressed whether we should or should not have left the EU. I’m not interested in yet another pontification by disgruntled losers of a democratic process either . If a democratic decision is taken and the losing side does not embrace the decision then democracy has failed . Nonsense. The losing side accepts the result but does not embrace the decision if it disagrees with it. It campaigns to change things in ways that it likes and seeks to win the argument next time. Nothing is ever set in stone by democratic votes. People are free to campaign for change, and to try and win approval for that change in subsequent votes. If we elect a Labour government next year, we will all accept the the result. But those who didnt vote Labour will still have the democratic choice of criticising the government and campaigning for something else. And they can hope for a different outcome in the next vote. That's democracy. What you want is for everyone who didn't vote Brexit to shut the fuck up and accept it for all time anyway, even as it proves to be something of a disaster. It is peoples' free and democratic right to disagree with the majority, and to argue against the outcome and to try and win support for change next time. So no, they should not shut the fuck up because they lost one vote. Anymore than you will shut up if someone you dont like wins the next election. And if you think Brexit has been frustrated and not delivered fully or properly, then blame the Brexiteer government in charge. The Remainers are not in power. |
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Post by wapentake on Nov 1, 2023 19:12:32 GMT
Another one missing the point . This isn’t about whether Brexit was right or wrong . It’s about democracy and democracy needs the losing side to accept the result of the vote . I never addressed whether we should or should not have left the EU. I’m not interested in yet another pontification by disgruntled losers of a democratic process either . If a democratic decision is taken and the losing side does not embrace the decision then democracy has failed . . And if you think Brexit has been frustrated and not delivered fully or properly, then blame the Brexiteer government in charge. The Remainers are not in power.Couldn’t let this pass Steve. On the surface no. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 1, 2023 19:15:13 GMT
Another one missing the point . This isn’t about whether Brexit was right or wrong . It’s about democracy and democracy needs the losing side to accept the result of the vote . I never addressed whether we should or should not have left the EU. I’m not interested in yet another pontification by disgruntled losers of a democratic process either . If a democratic decision is taken and the losing side does not embrace the decision then democracy has failed . Nonsense. The losing side accepts the result but does not embrace the decision if it disagrees with it. It campaigns to change things in ways that it likes and seeks to win the argument next time. Nothing is ever set in stone by democratic votes. People are free to campaign for change, and to try and win approval for that change in subsequent votes. If we elect a Labour government next year, we will all accept the the result. But those who didnt vote Labour will still have the democratic choice of criticising the government and campaigning for something else. And they can hope for a different outcome in the next vote. That's democracy. What you want is for everyone who didn't vote Brexit to shut the fuck up and accept it for all time anyway, even as it proves to be something of a disaster. It is peoples' free and democratic right to disagree with the majority, and to argue against the outcome and to try and win support for change next time. So no, they should not shut the fuck up because they lost one vote. Anymore than you will shut up if someone you dont like wins the next election. And if you think Brexit has been frustrated and not delivered fully or properly, then blame the Brexiteer government in charge. The Remainers are not in power. You can’t help making this a Brexit issue can you ? You and others like you are the disgruntled losers who make my point . You dont want democracy. You want your own way . You even post nonsense about arguing against the outcome ? How can you argue against the outcome of a yes or no , one time vote that you lost ? The dishonesty oozes out of ex remainers . |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 19:27:59 GMT
Nonsense. The losing side accepts the result but does not embrace the decision if it disagrees with it. It campaigns to change things in ways that it likes and seeks to win the argument next time. Nothing is ever set in stone by democratic votes. People are free to campaign for change, and to try and win approval for that change in subsequent votes. If we elect a Labour government next year, we will all accept the the result. But those who didnt vote Labour will still have the democratic choice of criticising the government and campaigning for something else. And they can hope for a different outcome in the next vote. That's democracy. What you want is for everyone who didn't vote Brexit to shut the fuck up and accept it for all time anyway, even as it proves to be something of a disaster. It is peoples' free and democratic right to disagree with the majority, and to argue against the outcome and to try and win support for change next time. So no, they should not shut the fuck up because they lost one vote. Anymore than you will shut up if someone you dont like wins the next election. And if you think Brexit has been frustrated and not delivered fully or properly, then blame the Brexiteer government in charge. The Remainers are not in power. You can’t help making this a Brexit issue can you ? You and others like you are the disgruntled losers who make my point . You dont want democracy. You want your own way . You even post nonsense about arguing against the outcome ? How can you argue against the outcome of a yes or no , one time vote that you lost ? The dishonesty oozes out of ex remainers . It is you who cannot except not having things your own way for all time. You cannot accept that people who vote one way are free to vote another later if they are persuaded to change their minds, and that people who disagree with any democratic outcome have the freedom to persuade others to vote differently next time. You just want the people who disagree with you to shut the fuck up after any election you win. If the people you disagree with win a democratic vote at the next general election will you shut the fuck up and support them? Or will you disagree from the sidelines as is your democratic right? Because freedom and democracy includes the right to disagree with an outcome even whilst accepting the result until the next time. So people are free to speak out against or campaign for everything and anything, knowing that in the end the people will decide. And if the people decide one thing at any particular time, that does not mean it is decided for all time. Because the will of the people is never set in stone and they may freely choose to vote very differently on a subsequent occasion. Thats democracy. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 19:31:59 GMT
. And if you think Brexit has been frustrated and not delivered fully or properly, then blame the Brexiteer government in charge. The Remainers are not in power.Couldn’t let this pass Steve. On the surface no. So you are resorting to some conspiracy theory by which the Remainers are somehow pulling the strings behind the scenes and thwarting the will of the people and the government of Brexiteers in office? Desperate stuff. You need either more plausible arguments, more supporting evidence, or more tin foil to make hats out of. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 1, 2023 19:35:04 GMT
You can’t help making this a Brexit issue can you ? You and others like you are the disgruntled losers who make my point . You dont want democracy. You want your own way . You even post nonsense about arguing against the outcome ? How can you argue against the outcome of a yes or no , one time vote that you lost ? The dishonesty oozes out of ex remainers . It is you who cannot except not having things your own way for all time. You cannot accept that people who vote one way are free to vote another later if they are persuaded to change their minds, and that people who disagree with any democratic outcome have the freedom to persuade others to vote differently next time. You just want the people who disagree with you to shut the fuck up after any election you win. If the people you disagree with win a democratic vote at the next general election will you shut the fuck up and support them? Or will you disagree from the sidelines as is your democratic right? Because freedom and democracy includes the right to disagree with an outcome even whilst accepting the result until the next time. So people are free to speak out against or campaign for everything and anything, knowing that in the end the people will decide. And if the people decide one thing at any particular time, that does not mean it is decided for all time. Because the will of the people is never set in stone and they may freely choose to vote very differently on a subsequent occasion. Thats democracy. You just posted a stream of ex remainer projection . If the losing side on the leave vote recognised democracy they would of accepted the vote and came together with the winning side to find a way to make it work . They didn’t . No amount of your verbiage and projection can disguise it. They took part in a referendum, lost , then tried to undermine the majority decision . Your huffing and puffing merely confirms it . |
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