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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 0:22:29 GMT
I must have missed this meeting. You do know that many Islamic militant groups and Jihadi terrorists are well educated? Some are very wealthy. Of the 1.9 Billion Muslims in the world, how many do you think are members of Islamic militant groups or who are Jihadi terrorists. ? The thing about people who stereotype an entire faith or race, is that they tend to make dramatic and outrageous statements, like for example suggesting all Muslims are terrorists. Most are living in strict authoritarian Islamic countries that were conquered by the sword. The fact remains, your attempts to bullshit people with untruths are there for all to see. When you actually find a genuine sample of somebody claiming all Muslims are terrorists, other than imagining this is happening, then maybe your post wouldn't look so daft.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:33:27 GMT
Exactly. Yet the seem to be broadly supportive the muslims and more prone to anti-semitism. It's very strange. I've just been listening to Mishal Hussein interviewing Mark Regev (a senior adviser to Netanyahu) on "Today". She was entirely pre-occupied by the number of Palestinians who have been killed and was quoting Hamas's figures for their deaths. Regev pointed out that these figures should be taken with a large dose of salt but Hussein wouldn't have it. It's very strange to me that the BBC is happy to believe Hamas but not Israel, despite the fact that Hamas are obviously a bunch of liars. The BBC never learn. Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. We also tend to be supportive of oppressed people everywhere, especially if our own establishment is supportive of the oppressors. This is why we tend to identify with the oppressed Palestinians. None of this makes us antisemites or supporters of the likes of Hamas. But I can see a thread designed for all the usual suspects to pile in and misrepresent us, so do carry on. Incidentally, if hatred of people for what they believe rather than for who they are is legitimate, why are those who hate Zionism - which is after all a belief system and not a race or people - automatically regarded as antisemitic racists? Hatred of people for their religion is as odious as hating people for their race. Hating the extremists who use religion as an excuse to do evil is legitimate. But tarring every muslim with the same brush is the very epitome of how hate fuelled bigotry works.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:37:16 GMT
I don't use a capital letter for muslim because the word isn't derived from a proper noun. Christian, for example derives from Christ. It's just pedantry. And I don't regard islam as a religion, so it also probably shouldn't have a capital letter. As I've said before there is in fact no word in Arabic for religion - islam is a "din", which roughly translates to "way of life". Islam comprises various cultist ideologies and delusions (like most religions) but it also includes a system of law (sharia) and punishment and a political agenda (now called islamism). Islamism supports the elimination of those who don't follow islam (muslim supremacy) and the creation of a global caliphate - which is broadly parallel to nazism's Aryan supremacy and Third Reich. And I don't have any "prejudice" against islam. I just recognise it for what it is and I don't like it. And I completely fail to understand why the Left defend islam when they, in general, don't support racism, sexism or homophobia. But islam does. Wiki says: The name Muslim is a diminutive of the name Aslam (أَسْلَم aslam), which both names stems from the male noun-name Salaam. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_(name)#:~:text=It%20is%20also%20the%20proper%20name%20for%20the,both%20names%20stems%20from%20the%20male%20noun-name%20Salaam. Hindu — to which you give a leading capital — derives its names from the Indus River. And I disagree your earlier statement that the BBC hates Jews. There are Jews in the BBC — some well known personalities at the BBC and others in permanent and temporary roles… Don't try and counter their bigotry and the blase assumptions this leads them to with actual facts. Their poor heads will explode.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:40:05 GMT
I must have missed this meeting. You do know that many Islamic militant groups and Jihadi terrorists are well educated? Some are very wealthy. Of the 1.9 Billion Muslims in the world, how many do you think are members of Islamic militant groups or who are Jihadi terrorists. ? The thing about people who stereotype an entire faith or race, is that they tend to make dramatic and outrageous statements, like for example suggesting all Muslims are terrorists. Oh no! You are challenging their prejudice with actual facts. That will never do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:45:15 GMT
Because it IS anti-semitism. There was about 5 minutes of sympathy for Israel after the vile muslim terrorist attack on October 7th, before the most of the world turned to "victim blaming". Of course the muslim world was still celebrating and applauding Hamas - no sympathy from them obviously. Now the Left wing world just wants Israel to go away and wait for the next Hamas terror attack. Unfortunately, this time, this is not going to happen. Israel has vowed to destroy Hamas - and most Israelis support that. But all we hear from the muslim apologists is that the Palestinians are an innocent people who just want peace and they don't support Hamas. "Hamas is not the Palestinian people" etc. You have to be very naive to believe that. They voted for Hamas as their government - and many say that if you had another vote they'd vote them in again. They want the Jews yo be eliminated and they want their land. Listen to what they're saying on the Hate marches around this country. "From the river to the sea" etc. In mosques all around the UK muslim imams are calling for "armed jihad" and death to the Jews. GB news have presented recorded evidence of this hate speech to the police - but I'm afraid they will do nothing. People tried to appease Hitler in the 1930s but it didn't work. The muslims are a far more powerful enemy than Hitler. Disagreeing with the Israeli government most decidedly is not antisemitism. To try and suggest that it is both cheapens the word and gives that government a free pass to do anything. It is a malignant and deliberate conflation designed to silence any and all legitimate criticism of Israel. And of course not all Israelis support their own government, anymore than all Britons support ours. Are these Israelis antisemitic too? You are clearly being ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:45:39 GMT
It looks like Mind Zone has succumb to the rabid far-left hysterics that exists elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:05:22 GMT
The far left seem to treat any dislike of Islam as being comparable to the holocaust whilst treating Christians as if they're "homophobes", "transphobes", "racists and bigots" to be subdued. Weird lot. I cannot speak for the far left because I am not a communist or anarchist. Or are you trying to do as many do and suggest that anything left of Blair is far left? By which you actually mean people like me with a false label applied? I do not equate dislike of Islam with the holocaust. The former is often a kind of bigotry yes. But the latter is bigotry actually acted upon in the most murderous and terrible way. The latter I of course condemn unreservedly, but will point out that the left took up arms against the kind of scum behind that far earlier than the right ever did. We fought alongside the Jews against such types in Cable Street. We were the first to start fighting these types in Spain, when our right wing government was ensuring that the Spanish anti-fascists got as little aid as possible whilst going out of their way to appease Hitler. Churchill was a noble exception on the right, yet even he was for a long time a fan of Mussolini. Some Christians are indeed homophobes and transphobes, using their faith to justify their prejudice, though I dont suppose them to be any more prone to racism than the rest of the human race. And many Christians are of course not homophobes at all. But muslims too often use their faith to justify homophobia. This is thus something not unique to Christians and I fully acknowledge that. But whilst being critical of those who use their faith - any faith - to justify bigotry, I support anyone's right to be an adherent of any religion or none, and think that hating people because of their religion is fundamentally wrong. But there very much does appear to be a tendency on the right in recent years to try and justify blatant Islamophobia, which supposedly doesnt even exist.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:12:45 GMT
There hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006. Hamas are a Nazi dictatorship. They are a dictatorship yes. And terrorists clearly. And yes they hate the Jews of Israel. But it is intellectual laziness to call them Nazis. They are theocrats rather than racial supremacists. They are not believers in the superiority of the Aryans They are not obsessive haters of socialism, tending rather to reject all aspects of westernisation more generally. Ideologically they are extremists, but in very many ways obviously ideologically very different from the Nazis. The latter for example rather hated religion. Hamas is in part driven by it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:16:00 GMT
It looks like Mind Zone has succumb to the rabid far-left hysterics that exists elsewhere. The far right witterings of yourself being the epitome of common sense, naturally.
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Post by Tinculin on Nov 12, 2023 14:17:31 GMT
Exactly. Yet the seem to be broadly supportive the muslims and more prone to anti-semitism. It's very strange. I've just been listening to Mishal Hussein interviewing Mark Regev (a senior adviser to Netanyahu) on "Today". She was entirely pre-occupied by the number of Palestinians who have been killed and was quoting Hamas's figures for their deaths. Regev pointed out that these figures should be taken with a large dose of salt but Hussein wouldn't have it. It's very strange to me that the BBC is happy to believe Hamas but not Israel, despite the fact that Hamas are obviously a bunch of liars. The BBC never learn. Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. We also tend to be supportive of oppressed people everywhere, especially if our own establishment is supportive of the oppressors. This is why we tend to identify with the oppressed Palestinians. None of this makes us antisemites or supporters of the likes of Hamas. But I can see a thread designed for all the usual suspects to pile in and misrepresent us, so do carry on. I think this outlines why the political left are so passionate about the Palestinian cause compared to many others. Right or wrongly it’s portrayed as a powerful white nation oppressing a group of non white muslims that are powerless to resist. And that ticks almost all the ‘lefts’ boxes. I’m not making any claim to the validity of that portrayal but I do see why emotions are so strong because of the perceived injustice.
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Post by Orac on Nov 12, 2023 14:24:45 GMT
Exactly. Yet the seem to be broadly supportive the muslims and more prone to anti-semitism. It's very strange. I've just been listening to Mishal Hussein interviewing Mark Regev (a senior adviser to Netanyahu) on "Today". She was entirely pre-occupied by the number of Palestinians who have been killed and was quoting Hamas's figures for their deaths. Regev pointed out that these figures should be taken with a large dose of salt but Hussein wouldn't have it. It's very strange to me that the BBC is happy to believe Hamas but not Israel, despite the fact that Hamas are obviously a bunch of liars. The BBC never learn. Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. Two completely different ideas which you have conflated. Just because people have the right to believe what they want, doesn't mean that you have to respect those beliefs or even like the people who hold them. Lazy thinking like this is causing a lot of problems
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:26:22 GMT
There hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006. Hamas are a Nazi dictatorship. They are a dictatorship yes. And terrorists clearly. And yes they hate the Jews of Israel. But it is intellectual laziness to call them Nazis. They are theocrats rather than racial supremacists. They are not believers in the superiority of the Aryans They are not obsessive haters of socialism, tending rather to reject all aspects of westernisation more generally. Ideologically they are extremists, but in very many ways obviously ideologically very different from the Nazis. The latter for example rather hated religion. Hamas is in part driven by it. They're actually Islamist (warm cosy feelies).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:36:41 GMT
Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. We also tend to be supportive of oppressed people everywhere, especially if our own establishment is supportive of the oppressors. This is why we tend to identify with the oppressed Palestinians. None of this makes us antisemites or supporters of the likes of Hamas. But I can see a thread designed for all the usual suspects to pile in and misrepresent us, so do carry on. I think this outlines why the political left are so passionate about the Palestinian cause compared to many others. Right or wrongly it’s portrayed as a powerful white nation oppressing a group of non white muslims that are powerless to resist. And that ticks almost all the ‘lefts’ boxes. I’m not making any claim to the validity of that portrayal but I do see why emotions are so strong because of the perceived injustice. You are kind of on the right track but with the following clarifications. I do not view the issue in racial terms at all. It is not a case of whites oppressing blacks as was clearly the case with Apartheid South Africa. Jews and Arabs are in fact both semitic peoples. For me it is simply a matter of the mighty oppressing the weak, with our own political establishment on the side of the oppressor. For me it is firstly a case of the weak being oppressed by the strong and denied their sovereign rights and freedoms. And secondly a case of the oppressors being backed by our own establishment. It is the combination of these two facts - not race - which gets left wingers fired up about the issue. Because I promise you something. If our government and establishment were backing Russia in spite of the war in Ukraine, the left would be screaming blue murder about it. It tends to be the complicity of our own establishment, either by crimes of commission or omission, in the oppression taking place which pushes our go nuclear button. Apartheid South Africa too mostly became such a totemic issue for us in its day because of the failure of our own establishment at the time to effectively challenge it. Grasping and understanding that essential fact is the real key to understanding which acts of international oppression will most readily press our buttons.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:40:41 GMT
Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. Two completely different ideas which you have conflated. Just because people have the right to believe what they want, doesn't mean that you have to respect those beliefs or even like the people who hold them. Lazy thinking like this is causing a lot of problems It also fails to analyze them, and just groups everything up in very simple minded terms. I find it dangerous, because these lefties literally believe they can control all of them, including us. The idea that freedom of religion means one cannot hate a rival is truely retarded by itself. How many phobias will they have to make up that all apparently represents the same thing, namely hate, and protects us all from each other?
It's all emotional driven and very ill-thought out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 14:44:55 GMT
Speaking as a left winger, we are supportive of the notion of freedom of religion and thus reject hatred of people for their faith, which is what Islamophobia basically is. Two completely different ideas which you have conflated. Just because people have the right to believe what they want, doesn't mean that you have to respect those beliefs or even like the people who hold them. Lazy thinking like this is causing a lot of problems Rubbish. If hating people for their beliefs becomes the accepted norm we are on the road to intolerance. And there is a big difference between not respecting someone's beliefs and not respecting them for holding those beliefs. There is much in both the bible and koran that I have little respect for. That does not give me license to disrespect Christians and Muslims for believing differently to me, nor should it you. That people such as yourself tend to think it does is what is causing a lot of problems. Take politics for example. I disrespect most of the shite you come out with. Does that mean I should hate you? Of course not. You havent done me any harm. If we start hating people for their opinions we really will be in trouble, but too many on the right seem to seek to find justifications for doing exactly that. And you are one of them.
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