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Post by oracle75 on Nov 29, 2022 10:35:08 GMT
The reality is, a qualified or limited participation in the EU Single Market does not disqualify or negate that participation. It is pointless to reframe reality. Switzerland is, in principle and in practice, a part of the EU SM. Whether the Swiss trade within it fully, selectively or in a limited way or as an EU member or via bilateral agreements is a different discussion. The fact remaints that Switzerland contributes financially to the EU. It applies EU laws. It participates in FoM. The Swiss even voted to keep freedom of movement a couple of years or so ago. All these in exchange for participation in the Single Market. So, what disqualifies Switzerland from being part of the EU Single Market? None. I agree with you that we should have gone for the Swiss model. And it seemed that the EU was receptive to such an arrangement. But BJ & Co and their sov'rentee-chasing, freedom-fighting, control freak supporters insisted that it's either their way, the harder way or the highway. You're willfully ignorant gnome. You will never understand anything because you don't even begin to understand the basics. Switzerland is NOT in the Single Market. That's a fact. It accepts free trade only on certain goods. And it doesn't have to abide by the various "pillars" of EU membership that come with the SIngle Market. And it hasn't signed up to EU laws. It has voluntarily agreed to accept alignment with EU rules on the products they trade, which is entirely reasonable. And it doesn't participate in FoM because people who want to live in Switzerland need residence permits. And it pays a very limited amount to the EU - about £150 million pa, rather than the £18 billion we were paying (we paid over 100 times more). As for the nonsense - "BJ & Co and their sov'rentee-chasing, freedom-fighting, control freak supporters insisted that it's either their way, the harder way or the highway" - did you ever try follow what was going on in the referendum. Or did you get your garbled idea from the BBC and the Guardian. The Switzerland deal was never on the table for the UK. And the EU demanded that the UK sign a withdrawal agreement before they would negotiate trade deals. Since the MPs (of all sides) were not willing to agree to any deal that didn't involve free trade (the Surrender Act) it makes it slightly difficult to opt for the bilateral deal as it would mean leaving without free trade. Like I said, I always find that people who support the EU almost always know SFA about it. Yes. We'll as far as knowing anything about it, "Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals." www.gov.uk › eu-eea Countries in the EU and EEA - GOV.UK People who have lived and worked across the EU have always needed residency permits. They act as ID cards.and help prevent illegal residency and employment. BTW, Switzerland is not the richest country in Europe. Luxembourg holds that spot of you count per capita wealth. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 29, 2022 20:35:41 GMT
Vacuous. ^ Looks like you're still still confused and disoriented. Remember -- you're the one who's been asking me for information about the Withdrawal Agreement, the Protocol and related issues. I'm the one who's been giving you correct information. Based on that, it's either you honestly know absolutely nothing about the UK-EU situation -- which makes you a dunce. Or? You just like trolling people with your silly, one-line, nonsense questions -- which makes you a Troll. You have given me childish nonsense - but only to be expected by someone who has no clue about what is happening in the world. Here is a hint - the UK has left the EU..  "hint"? I slipped in and removed her panties while you guys were wasting your time arguing  |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 30, 2022 6:40:43 GMT
You're willfully ignorant gnome. You will never understand anything because you don't even begin to understand the basics. Switzerland is NOT in the Single Market. That's a fact. It accepts free trade only on certain goods. And it doesn't have to abide by the various "pillars" of EU membership that come with the SIngle Market. And it hasn't signed up to EU laws. It has voluntarily agreed to accept alignment with EU rules on the products they trade, which is entirely reasonable. And it doesn't participate in FoM because people who want to live in Switzerland need residence permits. And it pays a very limited amount to the EU - about £150 million pa, rather than the £18 billion we were paying (we paid over 100 times more). As for the nonsense - "BJ & Co and their sov'rentee-chasing, freedom-fighting, control freak supporters insisted that it's either their way, the harder way or the highway" - did you ever try follow what was going on in the referendum. Or did you get your garbled idea from the BBC and the Guardian. The Switzerland deal was never on the table for the UK. And the EU demanded that the UK sign a withdrawal agreement before they would negotiate trade deals. Since the MPs (of all sides) were not willing to agree to any deal that didn't involve free trade (the Surrender Act) it makes it slightly difficult to opt for the bilateral deal as it would mean leaving without free trade. Like I said, I always find that people who support the EU almost always know SFA about it. Yes. We'll as far as knowing anything about it, "Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals." www.gov.uk › eu-eea Countries in the EU and EEA - GOV.UK People who have lived and worked across the EU have always needed residency permits. They act as ID cards.and help prevent illegal residency and employment. BTW, Switzerland is not the richest country in Europe. Luxembourg holds that spot of you count per capita wealth. Switzerland is not in the Single Market and has not signed up to the "4 pillars" that come with membership of the SM. So it has not signed up to free movement. It has bilateral agreements, one of them being about freedom of movement, but it's not the EU FoM deal. It includes "safeguard clauses" which can be invoked to keep people from settling. You can repeat the bollocks about the SM all you like but it's not true. If a country is in the SM it has no need of bilateral trade deals - which are part and parcel of the SM. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 10:41:19 GMT
When it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck? It is a duck. Only those in denial will insist the duck is a chicken. A) From the Swiss State Secretariat for Migration:
On 21 June 1999, the European Union (EU) and Switzerland signed the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP). The AFMP lifts restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland. The right of free movement is complemented by the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, by the right to buy property, and by the coordination of social insurance systems. The same rules also apply to citizens of EFTA member states.
The AFMP came into force in 1 June 2002. Each time the EU is enlarged, the agreement is extended to include the new member states by means of an additional protocol.
Croatia joined the EU on 1 July 2013. The extension of the AFMP to Croatia was negotiated in Protocol III. On 1 January 2017, the AFMP was extended to Croatia.www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home/themen/fza_schweiz-eu-efta.htmlB) From the online gateway to European Union Law, particularly, the General Provisions:
22002A0430(01)
Agreement between the European Community and its Member States, of the one part, and the Swiss Confederation, of the other, on the free movement of persons - Final Act - Joint Declarations - Information relating to the entry into force of the seven Agreements with the Swiss Confederation in the sectors free movement of persons, air and land transport, public procurement, scientific and technological cooperation, mutual recognition in relation to conformity assessment, and trade in agricultural products
Official Journal L 114 , 30/04/2002 P. 0006 - 0072
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX%3A22002A0430%2801%29%3AEN%3AHTML
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 2, 2022 9:22:30 GMT
Here's another quote (from the Times):
"When Switzerland negotiated its unique freedom of movement treaty with the EU in 1999 it also included a "safeguard clause" to be invoked if the annual influx from the EU countries exceeded a certain number. In April it announced the cap of 2180 for residency permits for immigrants from the 8 eastern European countries".
The EU didn't like it of course, but that's what they agreed in the treaty. How many immigrants have we taken from just Romania - about half a million. That's the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2022 16:47:45 GMT
Switzerland is as good as in the Single Market through various bi-lateral agreements and treaties, and the Swiss also follow most EU regulations in order to harmonise and ensure ease of goods.
Leaving the Single Market was the biggest act of self harm the UK has committed in modern times, and only a fool would now refuse to acknowledge that it has made doing business with our largest trading partner, a lot harder.
Plus of course all the other negatives, such as the seemingly impossible situation in Northern Ireland
However, as Pro European, and as a Labour supporter, I accept that we are not going to rejoin, and as Keir Starmer has declared, we now have to make the best of the situation outside of the European Union.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 3, 2022 8:09:01 GMT
Switzerland is as good as in the Single Market through various bi-lateral agreements and treaties, and the Swiss also follow most EU regulations in order to harmonise and ensure ease of goods. Leaving the Single Market was the biggest act of self harm the UK has committed in modern times, and only a fool would now refuse to acknowledge that it has made doing business with our largest trading partner, a lot harder. Plus of course all the other negatives, such as the seemingly impossible situation in Northern Ireland However, as Pro European, and as a Labour supporter, I accept that we are not going to rejoin, and as Keir Starmer has declared, we now have to make the best of the situation outside of the European Union. 1. The Single Market is far more than a few sectoral product trade agreements. If you're in the SM you're basically in the EU and accepting their "four pillars". 2. You need to remember that the original point of our "joining Europe" was to get "free trade" - so we joined the Common Market. Back then tariffs were pretty high and free trade was a definite benefit for the UK. It was simply a trade agreement. By the time they'd drawn up their Single Europe Act (which Maggie described as a "betrayal") the rot had set in. The politicians were doing what everyone always said they would do - turn the whole thing into a political project. Then when the daft Major signed up to the Maastricht treaty the die was caste. The euro followed soon after and what had been free trade area had turned into a European Superstate with protectionism set at its heart via the Customs Union. Our trade with the Commonwealth became too expensive because of the tariff barriers and the adoption of the euro allowed rich countries like Germany to trade with a much lower valued currency than the Deutschmark, so it wiped out our car industry - in fact most of our industry was decimated.To make matters worse the original benefits of "free trade" had gone because our membership contributions were now much higher than the tariffs we were avoiding through membership. The trap had been sprung. Nobody with any sense would join the EU or the Single Market now. 3. As for being our "largest trading partner" what do you expect if the EU has made us raise tariff barriers against non-EU members. Even so it's a declining trade area for the UK and has been for years. And the EU has got so big now that it has great difficulties making trade agreements. Who in their right mind would make an FTA with bloc like the EU which has most sectors of trade covered and access to cheap labour via eastern Europe. It wouldn't make sense. Trump asked why New York was full of VWs and not American cars - and he knew perfectly well it was because of EU "dumping". That was the end of any chance of the EU getting a deal. 4. As for the "impossible situation" in NI, bollocks. The EU has simply made it deliberately hard - by devoting 20% of their trade checks on a border that gets 0.5% of their trade - because they want to break up the UK. That's what they said they would do. It's no problem to Britain though - it damages NI though. But I guess that will be solved eventually by the unification of Ireland. They've been nothing but trouble to us for decades. |
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