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Post by sheepy on Oct 26, 2023 16:32:16 GMT
If I remember rightly when Parliament agreed to suspend your human rights you were in full agreement and shouting how right it was, but when it happens to someone else and they become voiceless to power and can be murdered at random, you are up in arms. Its a funny old world. What are you on about now? Life's rich tapestry. My personal amusement even.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 20:34:26 GMT
I never doubted that prior to the rise of Likud Israeli governments tended to be rather moderate, and I have already stated that the Israeli intransigence and shift to the right is fuelled by Arab terrorism, which in turn is fuelled by Israeli intransigence and land thefts resulting from that shift to the right. In other words both sides are reinforcing animosity towards each other. But only one of us is so biased as to claim that an historical massacre was not actually a massacre, because of which side did it. Israel needs to stop stealing the lands of others and give back what they have stolen, but the mutual animosity now runs too deep for this to be politically saleable in Israel, nor will extremist Arabs schooled in hate and grievance agree to any peace however reasonable. Only pressure from outside can hope to bring both sides closer to a meaningful and reasonable two state solution. Yes, both sides have been playing their part in aggression and violence for many years now, which I posted in order to refute your allegation that I had ignored it, but you do appear to have ignored the reality that this whole mess is a product of the history of Arab aggression and violence against the Jews. I have never stated that it wasn't a massacre, just that it was a battle caused by the imposition of a blockade on an Israeli supply line to isolated Israelis at a time when war was considered imminent. That you ignore the fact that it was a battle places you on one side of the debate. Massacre, definition. __"The meaning of MASSACRE is the act or an instance of killing a number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings". IMO nothing will improve until the Jews believe they will be allowed to live in peace, that is and always has been the position as far as I can see. IMO the fundamental problem is that Islamic fanatics are unlikely to ever see a way where Jews can live in peace in Palestine. If that turns out to be the case then the Jews will have little or no alternative but to fight for control of the area. Do you think the women and children at Deir Yassin were resisting? To call a massacre a battle just because a few Arab males fought back shows glaring bias on your part.
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Post by oracle75 on Oct 26, 2023 21:31:58 GMT
Oh piss off with your personal replies. I have as much right to an opinion as you do but you spend your time trying to provoke an argument. Go have one with yourself. I am not playing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 22:18:43 GMT
Oh piss off with your personal replies. I have as much right to an opinion as you do but you spend your time trying to provoke an argument. Go have one with yourself. I am not playing. Who are you responding to? It isn't clear.
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2023 8:54:57 GMT
Yes, both sides have been playing their part in aggression and violence for many years now, which I posted in order to refute your allegation that I had ignored it, but you do appear to have ignored the reality that this whole mess is a product of the history of Arab aggression and violence against the Jews. I have never stated that it wasn't a massacre, just that it was a battle caused by the imposition of a blockade on an Israeli supply line to isolated Israelis at a time when war was considered imminent. That you ignore the fact that it was a battle places you on one side of the debate. Massacre, definition. __"The meaning of MASSACRE is the act or an instance of killing a number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings". IMO nothing will improve until the Jews believe they will be allowed to live in peace, that is and always has been the position as far as I can see. IMO the fundamental problem is that Islamic fanatics are unlikely to ever see a way where Jews can live in peace in Palestine. If that turns out to be the case then the Jews will have little or no alternative but to fight for control of the area. Do you think the women and children at Deir Yassin were resisting? To call a massacre a battle just because a few Arab males fought back shows glaring bias on your part. Of course not, but you and the writer of the piece ignore the fact that the Arab / Muslim armies were already lined up to destroy Israel.IMO the blockade denying the Israeli the ability to supply the isolated Israelis thus weakening the Israeli position, was the first act in the war to annihilate Israel. Again IMO, the anger and concern the blockade caused over the immanent war for survival looming over the Israelis, must have played a part in the Israeli contempt for the defenders of the blockade. To refuse to see the full picture shows a glaring bias on your part. Care to acknowledge a real Massacre? The invasion into Israel by Hamas that sought out unarmed civilians, men women and children for the purpose of killing them. Now that is beyond any doubt truly and accurately described as a massacre. But no one appears to be doing that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2023 11:01:15 GMT
Do you think the women and children at Deir Yassin were resisting? To call a massacre a battle just because a few Arab males fought back shows glaring bias on your part. Of course not, but you and the writer of the piece ignore the fact that the Arab / Muslim armies were already lined up to destroy Israel.IMO the blockade denying the Israeli the ability to supply the isolated Israelis thus weakening the Israeli position, was the first act in the war to annihilate Israel. Again IMO, the anger and concern the blockade caused over the immanent war for survival looming over the Israelis, must have played a part in the Israeli contempt for the defenders of the blockade. To refuse to see the full picture shows a glaring bias on your part. Care to acknowledge a real Massacre? The invasion into Israel by Hamas that sought out unarmed civilians, men women and children for the purpose of killing them. Now that is beyond any doubt truly and accurately described as a massacre. But no one appears to be doing that. If you cannot see that using a military blockade as a justification for contempt and massacre betrays your own obvious bias, it is obvious to me and others. The political aims of the enemy fighting forces are themselves irrelevant insofar as the conduct of fighting is concerned. They do not justify massacres of civilians. It is perfectly possible to disagree with the aims of the Arabs without using those aims as justification for massacres, which you appear to be doing.
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Post by see2 on Oct 27, 2023 11:28:09 GMT
Of course not, but you and the writer of the piece ignore the fact that the Arab / Muslim armies were already lined up to destroy Israel.IMO the blockade denying the Israeli the ability to supply the isolated Israelis thus weakening the Israeli position, was the first act in the war to annihilate Israel. Again IMO, the anger and concern the blockade caused over the immanent war for survival looming over the Israelis, must have played a part in the Israeli contempt for the defenders of the blockade. To refuse to see the full picture shows a glaring bias on your part. Care to acknowledge a real Massacre? The invasion into Israel by Hamas that sought out unarmed civilians, men women and children for the purpose of killing them. Now that is beyond any doubt truly and accurately described as a massacre. But no one appears to be doing that. If you cannot see that using a military blockade as a justification for contempt and massacre betrays your own obvious bias, it is obvious to me and others. The political aims of the enemy fighting forces are themselves irrelevant insofar as the conduct of fighting is concerned. They do not justify massacres of civilians. It is perfectly possible to disagree with the aims of the Arabs without using those aims as justification for massacres, which you appear to be doing. I have made the needs for the removal of the blockade clear. That it ended in the presumably unnecessary slaughter of many is a product of the danger to Israel the blockade represented. That is not an excuse for what took place, but it is an explanation of the reality of the situation. I suspect that part of the problem might be the centuries of attacking the Jews which they have just had to put up with because they had no country of their own to stand up for them, has played a part in the mindset of the Jews who now seem to have taken to the view that if anyone attacks us, we will hit back twice as hard. Incidentally, "The Quran mentions that the land of Palestine was given to the Children of Israel, but they must remain obedient and fear Allah to maintain their ownership".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2023 21:44:35 GMT
If you cannot see that using a military blockade as a justification for contempt and massacre betrays your own obvious bias, it is obvious to me and others. The political aims of the enemy fighting forces are themselves irrelevant insofar as the conduct of fighting is concerned. They do not justify massacres of civilians. It is perfectly possible to disagree with the aims of the Arabs without using those aims as justification for massacres, which you appear to be doing. I have made the needs for the removal of the blockade clear. That it ended in the presumably unnecessary slaughter of many is a product of the danger to Israel the blockade represented. That is not an excuse for what took place, but it is an explanation of the reality of the situation. I suspect that part of the problem might be the centuries of attacking the Jews which they have just had to put up with because they had no country of their own to stand up for them, has played a part in the mindset of the Jews who now seem to have taken to the view that if anyone attacks us, we will hit back twice as hard. Incidentally, "The Quran mentions that the land of Palestine was given to the Children of Israel, but they must remain obedient and fear Allah to maintain their ownership". Again, you are seeking to to justify the Deir Yassin massacre, yet lack the insight to understand that once you are arriving at an opinion that justifies a massacre, then you are clearly uttering a highly partisan and biased opinion.
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Post by see2 on Oct 28, 2023 8:07:14 GMT
I have made the needs for the removal of the blockade clear. That it ended in the presumably unnecessary slaughter of many is a product of the danger to Israel the blockade represented. That is not an excuse for what took place, but it is an explanation of the reality of the situation. I suspect that part of the problem might be the centuries of attacking the Jews which they have just had to put up with because they had no country of their own to stand up for them, has played a part in the mindset of the Jews who now seem to have taken to the view that if anyone attacks us, we will hit back twice as hard. Incidentally, "The Quran mentions that the land of Palestine was given to the Children of Israel, but they must remain obedient and fear Allah to maintain their ownership". Again, you are seeking to to justify the Deir Yassin massacre, yet lack the insight to understand that once you are arriving at an opinion that justifies a massacre, then you are clearly uttering a highly partisan and biased opinion. No, Your misguided approach repeatedly refuses to take into consideration the plight of the Jews. I have given you a definition of a massacre and an example of a real massacre, yet all you can see is the atrocity of Deir Yassin. That IMO suggests that whether you are or are not your posts suggests that you are an anti-Semite.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2023 21:25:13 GMT
Again, you are seeking to to justify the Deir Yassin massacre, yet lack the insight to understand that once you are arriving at an opinion that justifies a massacre, then you are clearly uttering a highly partisan and biased opinion. No, Your misguided approach repeatedly refuses to take into consideration the plight of the Jews. I have given you a definition of a massacre and an example of a real massacre, yet all you can see is the atrocity of Deir Yassin. That IMO suggests that whether you are or are not your posts suggests that you are an anti-Semite. Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. Or is my failure to understand the need for the Jews to massacre those people enough to label me anti-semitic now? And clearly your insight is absolute pants, because you cannot see that justifying a massacre by your own chosen side is itself obvious evidence of gross bias on your part.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 28, 2023 21:29:46 GMT
No, Your misguided approach repeatedly refuses to take into consideration the plight of the Jews. I have given you a definition of a massacre and an example of a real massacre, yet all you can see is the atrocity of Deir Yassin. That IMO suggests that whether you are or are not your posts suggests that you are an anti-Semite. Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. You do realise Deir Yassin was 75 years ago - we have had many more massacres since then. The latest being 3 weeks ago..
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Post by wapentake on Oct 28, 2023 21:40:17 GMT
Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. You do realise Deir Yassin was 75 years ago - we have had many more massacres since then. The latest being 3 weeks ago.. What has the time it happened got to do with it are you saying because it happened a while ago it doesn’t matter?
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 7:31:14 GMT
You do realise Deir Yassin was 75 years ago - we have had many more massacres since then. The latest being 3 weeks ago.. What has the time it happened got to do with it are you saying because it happened a while ago it doesn’t matter? Well when you are reduced to citing events from 75 years ago as reasons to continue this blood feud then is your motivation really for a peaceful resolution?
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Post by wapentake on Oct 29, 2023 8:08:22 GMT
What has the time it happened got to do with it are you saying because it happened a while ago it doesn’t matter? Well when you are reduced to citing events from 75 years ago as reasons to continue this blood feud then is your motivation really for a peaceful resolution? Well that begs the question why are you reduced to referring to events that happened over 80 years ago and were absolutely nothing to do with the Palestinian Arabs?
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 29, 2023 8:16:17 GMT
You do realise Deir Yassin was 75 years ago - we have had many more massacres since then. The latest being 3 weeks ago.. What has the time it happened got to do with it are you saying because it happened a while ago it doesn’t matter? It's year zero. The world began on 7th October 2023.
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