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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 0:04:07 GMT
So what? There were still Palestinian Jewish families in Palestine, families that had lived there long before Islam even existed. And it was still a sparsely populated area. How many Jews had gone to other countries in order to escape being treated as second class citizens (the Dhimmi) in their own country which had been turned into an apartheid system created by the Arabs? How many had left because of the occasional Pogrom on Jewish communities by the Arabs? Your bias is utterly fantastical. Yes in former times Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims. Christians also discriminated against non-Christians and even different denominations of the same faith. And you utterly ignore that today it is the Israelis who treat Arabs as second class citizens somewhat akin to apartheid. But you will never get your head around that fact because of your own obvious bias. You seem utterly incapable of seeing both sides neutrally and even-handedly. Are you now going to react true to form and start telling lies about me? Should be good for a laugh at least. |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 26, 2023 6:13:13 GMT
So what? There were still Palestinian Jewish families in Palestine, families that had lived there long before Islam even existed. And it was still a sparsely populated area. How many Jews had gone to other countries in order to escape being treated as second class citizens (the Dhimmi) in their own country which had been turned into an apartheid system created by the Arabs? How many had left because of the occasional Pogrom on Jewish communities by the Arabs? Your bias is utterly fantastical. Yes in former times Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims. Christians also discriminated against non-Christians and even different denominations of the same faith. And you utterly ignore that today it is the Israelis who treat Arabs as second class citizens somewhat akin to apartheid. But you will never get your head around that fact because of your own obvious bias. You seem utterly incapable of seeing both sides neutrally and even-handedly. Are you now going to react true to form and start telling lies about me? Should be good for a laugh at least. If I remember rightly when Parliament agreed to suspend your human rights you were in full agreement and shouting how right it was, but when it happens to someone else and they become voiceless to power and can be murdered at random, you are up in arms. Its a funny old world. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 8:36:20 GMT
Generally people fleeing danger will go to anywhere they regard as safer. In the 1948-49 war it was mostly Jews driving Arabs out of the areas they controlled, with the aid of the odd massacre here and there. Of course, had the Arabs succeeded in overrunning Israel there would likely have been Arab massacres of Jews resulting in many fleeing abroad. But the likelihood of the Arabs doing to Jews what Jews did to Arabs at Deir Yassin had they got the chance in no way justifies Deir Yassin. Well at the time Jews were being expelled from neighboring Arab countries - so there was effectively nowhere they could flee to in the region. What you are also avoiding is that it was the invading Arab armies who told the Palestinians to flee. And it was a very large number. Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israelwww.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 26, 2023 8:59:52 GMT
The Muslims and the Jews are taught an eye for an eye.
They need to learn that two wrongs don't make a right.
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2023 9:36:15 GMT
So what? There were still Palestinian Jewish families in Palestine, families that had lived there long before Islam even existed. And it was still a sparsely populated area. How many Jews had gone to other countries in order to escape being treated as second class citizens (the Dhimmi) in their own country which had been turned into an apartheid system created by the Arabs? How many had left because of the occasional Pogrom on Jewish communities by the Arabs? Your bias is utterly fantastical. Yes in former times Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims. Christians also discriminated against non-Christians and even different denominations of the same faith. And you utterly ignore that today it is the Israelis who treat Arabs as second class citizens somewhat akin to apartheid. But you will never get your head around that fact because of your own obvious bias. You seem utterly incapable of seeing both sides neutrally and even-handedly.Are you now going to react true to form and start telling lies about me? Should be good for a laugh at least. The position of the Dhimmitude was imposed for around 1400 years. And now you project your obvious bias onto me. I have not ignored the situation caused by the Right-wing government in Israel. You seem to post things about me that are a product of your imagination. I have previously posted that Israeli governments up until 1977 were moderate, left wing secular governments, it was persistent acts of terrorism by the Palestinian Arabs and terrorist organisations that forged the forming of right-wing Likud in 1973 and and saw them first elected in 1977. In short the Arabs are the architects of their own distressed position. There would be none of this if the Palestinian Arabs had accepted the Two State solution offered in 1948. This shift to the Right seems reasonably common when a situation arises that appears to have no normal answer to it. "evenly and even-handedly"? Like your one eyed reference to the Deir Yassin blockade. Yes, your post is a chuckle worthy one. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 9:51:27 GMT
Your bias is utterly fantastical. Yes in former times Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims. Christians also discriminated against non-Christians and even different denominations of the same faith. And you utterly ignore that today it is the Israelis who treat Arabs as second class citizens somewhat akin to apartheid. But you will never get your head around that fact because of your own obvious bias. You seem utterly incapable of seeing both sides neutrally and even-handedly. Are you now going to react true to form and start telling lies about me? Should be good for a laugh at least. If I remember rightly when Parliament agreed to suspend your human rights you were in full agreement and shouting how right it was, but when it happens to someone else and they become voiceless to power and can be murdered at random, you are up in arms. Its a funny old world. What are you on about now? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 10:01:05 GMT
Your bias is utterly fantastical. Yes in former times Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims. Christians also discriminated against non-Christians and even different denominations of the same faith. And you utterly ignore that today it is the Israelis who treat Arabs as second class citizens somewhat akin to apartheid. But you will never get your head around that fact because of your own obvious bias. You seem utterly incapable of seeing both sides neutrally and even-handedly.Are you now going to react true to form and start telling lies about me? Should be good for a laugh at least. The position of the Dhimmitude was imposed for around 1400 years. And now you project your obvious bias onto me. I have not ignored the situation caused by the Right-wing government in Israel. You seem to post things about me that are a product of your imagination. I have previously posted that Israeli governments up until 1977 were moderate, left wing secular governments, it was persistent acts of terrorism by the Palestinian Arabs and terrorist organisations that forged the forming of right-wing Likud in 1973 and and saw them first elected in 1977. In short the Arabs are the architects of their own distressed position. There would be none of this if the Palestinian Arabs had accepted the Two State solution offered in 1948. This shift to the Right seems reasonably common when a situation arises that appears to have no normal answer to it. "evenly and even-handedly"? Like your one eyed reference to the Deir Yassin blockade. Yes, your post is a chuckle worthy one. I never doubted that prior to the rise of Likud Israeli governments tended to be rather moderate, and I have already stated that the Israeli intransigence and shift to the right is fuelled by Arab terrorism, which in turn is fuelled by Israeli intransigence and land thefts resulting from that shift to the right. In other words both sides are reinforcing animosity towards each other. But only one of us is so biased as to claim that an historical massacre was not actually a massacre, because of which side did it. Israel needs to stop stealing the lands of others and give back what they have stolen, but the mutual animosity now runs too deep for this to be politically saleable in Israel, nor will extremist Arabs schooled in hate and grievance agree to any peace however reasonable. Only pressure from outside can hope to bring both sides closer to a meaningful and reasonable two state solution. |
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Post by wapentake on Oct 26, 2023 10:17:48 GMT
If I remember rightly when Parliament agreed to suspend your human rights you were in full agreement and shouting how right it was, but when it happens to someone else and they become voiceless to power and can be murdered at random, you are up in arms. Its a funny old world. What are you on about now? I’m only guessing but I think Sheepy is referring to the time when covid regulations were enforced here. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 12:34:49 GMT
The Muslims and the Jews are taught an eye for an eye. They need to learn that two wrongs don't make a right. I thought you were calling for Putin's legs to be blown off and to leave him to bleed out, Vinny. When Muslims and Jews start to get on together, hell will freeze over. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 26, 2023 12:48:14 GMT
The position of the Dhimmitude was imposed for around 1400 years. And now you project your obvious bias onto me. I have not ignored the situation caused by the Right-wing government in Israel. You seem to post things about me that are a product of your imagination. I have previously posted that Israeli governments up until 1977 were moderate, left wing secular governments, it was persistent acts of terrorism by the Palestinian Arabs and terrorist organisations that forged the forming of right-wing Likud in 1973 and and saw them first elected in 1977. In short the Arabs are the architects of their own distressed position. There would be none of this if the Palestinian Arabs had accepted the Two State solution offered in 1948. This shift to the Right seems reasonably common when a situation arises that appears to have no normal answer to it. "evenly and even-handedly"? Like your one eyed reference to the Deir Yassin blockade. Yes, your post is a chuckle worthy one. I never doubted that prior to the rise of Likud Israeli governments tended to be rather moderate, and I have already stated that the Israeli intransigence and shift to the right is fuelled by Arab terrorism, which in turn is fuelled by Israeli intransigence and land thefts resulting from that shift to the right. In other words both sides are reinforcing animosity towards each other. But only one of us is so biased as to claim that an historical massacre was not actually a massacre, because of which side did it. Israel needs to stop stealing the lands of others and give back what they have stolen, but the mutual animosity now runs too deep for this to be politically saleable in Israel, nor will extremist Arabs schooled in hate and grievance agree to any peace however reasonable. Only pressure from outside can hope to bring both sides closer to a meaningful and reasonable two state solution. Yes, both sides have been playing their part in aggression and violence for many years now, which I posted in order to refute your allegation that I had ignored it, but you do appear to have ignored the reality that this whole mess is a product of the history of Arab aggression and violence against the Jews. I have never stated that it wasn't a massacre, just that it was a battle caused by the imposition of a blockade on an Israeli supply line to isolated Israelis at a time when war was considered imminent. That you ignore the fact that it was a battle places you on one side of the debate. Massacre, definition. __"The meaning of MASSACRE is the act or an instance of killing a number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings". IMO nothing will improve until the Jews believe they will be allowed to live in peace, that is and always has been the position as far as I can see. IMO the fundamental problem is that Islamic fanatics are unlikely to ever see a way where Jews can live in peace in Palestine. If that turns out to be the case then the Jews will have little or no alternative but to fight for control of the area. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 26, 2023 12:53:02 GMT
Putin's a mass murderer who has caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people from Chechnya, Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, Syria.
If a dog bites a child and kills a child, and the dog is put down, the dog cannot kill another child.
It doesn't suddenly become good that the dog has been put down.
But it was necessary.
Once Putin is defeated in Ukraine, he'll still be the rabid dog who bit and killed others.
It's necessary to ensure that neither he, or anyone like him, will ever do it again.
And saying "blow his legs off" with a PTRD-41 also has a good effect at annoying Putin supporters.
There is no equivalence between the Russia Ukraine conflict and the Hamas Likud conflict.
Ukrainians are victims of Putin's aggression.
Ukraine aren't attacking Russian civilians.
The IDF and Hamas are both attacking civilians.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2023 14:01:31 GMT
The IDF and Hamas are both attacking civilians. Nope. Hamas are deliberately attacking civilians. Any civilian deaths caused by the IDF are collateral damage as they never attack civilians. Both sets of civilians are still dead, but the intent is very important as it is the difference between a war crime or not. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 26, 2023 14:24:19 GMT
Members of the IDF have attacked and killed civilians in the past, it may not be official policy, but it does happen.
Tasyir Hayb only did 5 years inside after he killed Tom Hurndall.
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Post by Orac on Oct 26, 2023 15:13:31 GMT
Members of the IDF have attacked and killed civilians in the past, it may not be official policy, but it does happen. Tasyir Hayb only did 5 years inside after he killed Tom Hurndall. What sort of sentences do Hamas fighters receive if they deliberately kill Israeli citizens? |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 26, 2023 15:21:34 GMT
None.
Never defended Hamas, have I?
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