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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 8:19:29 GMT
Well when you are reduced to citing events from 75 years ago as reasons to continue this blood feud then is your motivation really for a peaceful resolution? Well that begs the question why are you reduced to referring to events that happened over 80 years ago and were absolutely nothing to do with the Palestinian Arabs? such as?
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Post by wapentake on Oct 29, 2023 8:24:49 GMT
Well that begs the question why are you reduced to referring to events that happened over 80 years ago and were absolutely nothing to do with the Palestinian Arabs? such as? When in one of your posts around this attack you posted never againclearly referring to the holocaust
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 8:26:21 GMT
When in one of your posts around this attack you posted never againclearly referring to yhe holocaust yes - and the whole quote was? Don't get me wrong - we can all pick out individual words from posts to create any meaning we want - not sure its really worthwhile though.
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Post by wapentake on Oct 29, 2023 8:31:57 GMT
When in one of your posts around this attack you posted never againclearly referring to yhe holocaust yes - and the whole quote was? Don't get me wrong - we can all pick out individual words from posts to create any meaning we want - not sure it’s really worthwhile though. What you weren’t referring to the holocaust?
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Post by see2 on Oct 29, 2023 9:02:27 GMT
No, Your misguided approach repeatedly refuses to take into consideration the plight of the Jews. I have given you a definition of a massacre and an example of a real massacre, yet all you can see is the atrocity of Deir Yassin. That IMO suggests that whether you are or are not your posts suggests that you are an anti-Semite. Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. Or is my failure to understand the need for the Jews to massacre those people enough to label me anti-semitic now? And clearly your insight is absolute pants, because you cannot see that justifying a massacre by your own chosen side is itself obvious evidence of gross bias on your part. First of all the Hagenah was formed in 1920 It was formed because of the need to defend the Jews from Arab attacks. The offshoots from Hagenah often chose to attack the would be attackers. Your refusal to give any acknowledgement to the Plight of the Jews and their need to be able to defend themselves from the armies already lined up ready to annihilate Israel is what suggests a level of anti-Semitism on your part. Your excuse for appearing to be Anti-Semitic, is a complete deviation. Your next two excuses for appearing to be anti-Semitic is distortion followed by distortion. I never made any excuse for the Jews to kill innocent civilians. I have never made any excuse for the killing of any innocent civilians, I have just filled in the full picture for you, as you do not appear to see anything that you do not want to see.
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Post by see2 on Oct 29, 2023 9:14:57 GMT
What has the time it happened got to do with it are you saying because it happened a while ago it doesn’t matter? It's year zero. The world began on 7th October 2023. Yes, I can understand why so many people are demonstrating against the way Israel are going about destroying Hamas, what I can't understand is the lack of response by the public against the massacre Hamas deliberately imposed upon unarmed Israeli civilians. Why didn't the Arab world turn against Hamas is the question for me. Is the Arab world anti-Semitic, was it already anti-Semitic before the decision by the Israelis to destroy Hamas?
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Post by see2 on Oct 29, 2023 9:22:14 GMT
When in one of your posts around this attack you posted never againclearly referring to the holocaust The killing, torturing, pogroms, expulsions of the Jews went on long before the holocaust. It was certainly time for the Jews to say, 'never again'.
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Post by wapentake on Oct 29, 2023 9:52:58 GMT
When in one of your posts around this attack you posted never againclearly referring to the holocaust The killing, torturing, pogroms, expulsions of the Jews went on long before the holocaust. It was certainly time for the Jews to say, 'never again'. I didn’t say it wasn’t reasonable to say never again,my point was to Pacifico (and others) that there is a move prevalent on here to dismiss any alternative and that the deification of Israel is not to be challenged because it’s irrelevant,not on topic or up for discussion and any attempt to counter makes you anti Semitic.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 11:31:20 GMT
The killing, torturing, pogroms, expulsions of the Jews went on long before the holocaust. It was certainly time for the Jews to say, 'never again'. I didn’t say it wasn’t reasonable to say never again,my point was to Pacifico (and others) that there is a move prevalent on here to dismiss any alternative and that the deification of Israel is not to be challenged because it’s irrelevant,not on topic or up for discussion and any attempt to counter makes you anti Semitic.No there is not. You are exercised by the Deir Yassin massacre and believe it has relevance today - but what about the Kfar Etzion massacre where even more people were killed?. Does swapping stories of battles from 75 years ago actually achieve much in trying to sort out todays problems?
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Post by wapentake on Oct 29, 2023 11:47:46 GMT
I didn’t say it wasn’t reasonable to say never again,my point was to Pacifico (and others) that there is a move prevalent on here to dismiss any alternative and that the deification of Israel is not to be challenged because it’s irrelevant,not on topic or up for discussion and any attempt to counter makes you anti Semitic.No there is not. You are exercised by the Deir Yassin massacre and believe it has relevance today - but what about the Kfar Etzion massacre where even more people were killed?. Does swapping stories of battles from 75 years ago actually achieve much in trying to sort out today’s problems? Am I? No not really since it wasn’t me that mentioned it Steve did,however you have picked me up when I’ve referenced other attacks terrorist or otherwise. What I was doing was pointing out the flaws in your reply to him and myself previously and you do the very same thing and refer to past events when it suits your argument which rather destroys your point.
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 29, 2023 16:12:26 GMT
The killing, torturing, pogroms, expulsions of the Jews went on long before the holocaust. It was certainly time for the Jews to say, 'never again'. I didn’t say it wasn’t reasonable to say never again,my point was to Pacifico (and others) that there is a move prevalent on here to dismiss any alternative and that the deification of Israel is not to be challenged because it’s irrelevant,not on topic or up for discussion and any attempt to counter makes you anti Semitic. Pol-Potico appears to be another exponent of Year Zero.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 17:50:55 GMT
No there is not. You are exercised by the Deir Yassin massacre and believe it has relevance today - but what about the Kfar Etzion massacre where even more people were killed?. Does swapping stories of battles from 75 years ago actually achieve much in trying to sort out today’s problems? Am I? No not really since it wasn’t me that mentioned it Steve did,however you have picked me up when I’ve referenced other attacks terrorist or otherwise. What I was doing was pointing out the flaws in your reply to him and myself previously and you do the very same thing and refer to past events when it suits your argument which rather destroys your point. Well as you cannot remember exactly what I said and the context it was said in, I dont see how you can make any determination at all. FWIW I'm still waiting for someone (anyone?) to explain what relevance deir Yassin has to the situation today. Perhaps the question is too hard.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 29, 2023 17:51:47 GMT
I didn’t say it wasn’t reasonable to say never again,my point was to Pacifico (and others) that there is a move prevalent on here to dismiss any alternative and that the deification of Israel is not to be challenged because it’s irrelevant,not on topic or up for discussion and any attempt to counter makes you anti Semitic. Pol-Potico appears to be another exponent of Year Zero. year zero started on the 6th October when we had a ceasefire - unfortunately the Palestinians invaded the next day...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2023 20:16:48 GMT
Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. Or is my failure to understand the need for the Jews to massacre those people enough to label me anti-semitic now? And clearly your insight is absolute pants, because you cannot see that justifying a massacre by your own chosen side is itself obvious evidence of gross bias on your part. First of all the Hagenah was formed in 1920 It was formed because of the need to defend the Jews from Arab attacks. The offshoots from Hagenah often chose to attack the would be attackers. Your refusal to give any acknowledgement to the Plight of the Jews and their need to be able to defend themselves from the armies already lined up ready to annihilate Israel is what suggests a level of anti-Semitism on your part. Your excuse for appearing to be Anti-Semitic, is a complete deviation. Your next two excuses for appearing to be anti-Semitic is distortion followed by distortion. I never made any excuse for the Jews to kill innocent civilians. I have never made any excuse for the killing of any innocent civilians, I have just filled in the full picture for you, as you do not appear to see anything that you do not want to see. I know the Jews needed to defend themselves. I have not criticised them for that. I have criticised a few extremists amongst them for committing massacres of civilians, notably at Deir Yassin. The fact that I fail to see the plight of the Jews as a justification for committing massacres does not make me an anti-semite, and if you think it does go and give your head a wobble and wake up to your own hopeless bias. Anyone seeking to defend one sides massacres of the civilians of another side is clearly biased. And no better than those seeking to justify the massacre committed by Hamas and citing the plight of the Palestinians as justification. If you were even capable of demonstrating the merest modicum of insight into your own bias you might begin to understand that. I condemn the actions of Palestinian extremists in massacring Jewish civilians, whilst citing as justification the plight of the Palestinians. I also condemn the actions of extremist Jews in massacring Arab civilians, whilst citing as justification the plight of the Jews. Any unbiased person can see that both are equally wrong. You however seem to think such conduct is ok when it is your own chosen side doing it. Your bias is so laughably obvious that your inability to see it is actually rather comical. If you don't even understand your own thinking, you are never going to persuade many others.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2023 20:44:24 GMT
Absolute rubbish. Calling out a massacre by extremist Jews does not make me an anti-semite. I gave many facts, the massacre at Deir Yassin being just one of them. So you are a lying git as usual in saying that is all I can see. For one thing the Hamas attack on October 7th was also a massacre. Saying so no more makes me anti-Arab than calling out Deir Yassin makes me anti-semitic. Apparently in your world even calling a massacre by extremist Jews a massacre is anti-semitic, which makes you one of the most biased gits around here. You do realise Deir Yassin was 75 years ago - we have had many more massacres since then. The latest being 3 weeks ago.. I am well aware of that. My mention of Deir Yassin was in a contextual post about the origins and history of the conflict. Others since then, most notably the seriously biased see 2, have made an issue out of trying to call the massacre a battle, then admitting it was an atrocity but trying to justify it on the strength of the plight of the Jews. Would you prefer me to let such biased re-writings of history go unchallenged? Because it is rarely something you are minded to do when it is not facts that you wish to wish away. The very conflict going on today has deep historical roots so traumatic historical events for either side are very much relevant today. And are you seriously trying to imply that I am belittling the recent massacre committed by Hamas? Of course I am not. It is all just part of the endless cycle of both sides reinforcing hatred for each other all the time. If you can find the post where I said the massacre of Israeli civilians was justified by Deir Yassin, do quote it. And if you cannot, it might serve you better if you were to speak out of the correct orifice here. Deir Yassin does not justify the atrocious Hamas terror attack and massacre. But neither does it cease to be a historical fact because of it either.
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