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Post by Pacifico on Oct 11, 2023 7:22:37 GMT
But these are the same people who keep insisting that wind power is cheaper than gas yet, in the real world, no company will sell you energy from wind at a cheaper rate than gas. Sounds like there is a lot of wishful thinking going on there. Why would they when they can get more. That's business and doesn't change the cost of manufacture. But they cant - they refused to contract for the cheaper price. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 11, 2023 7:32:35 GMT
That's right. The minute the govt tried to lower the price for wind generated electricity absolutely no one bid.  So much for the claims that it's cheaper than gas. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 11, 2023 13:09:17 GMT
From the Grantham Institute report. Combined, the net-zero transition (estimated to cost a maximum of 2% of UK GDP) is expected to have a net benefit of around 4% of GDP.But these are the same people who keep insisting that wind power is cheaper than gas yet, in the real world, no company will sell you energy from wind at a cheaper rate than gas. Sounds like there is a lot of wishful thinking going on there. What energy is sold at and what it costs to produce are separate matters. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 11, 2023 14:43:17 GMT
But these are the same people who keep insisting that wind power is cheaper than gas yet, in the real world, no company will sell you energy from wind at a cheaper rate than gas. Sounds like there is a lot of wishful thinking going on there. What energy is sold at and what it costs to produce are separate matters. Not at all. Energy is sold at a rate that companies can make a profit from it. It's all very well claiming that companies can make a profit from wind power being priced cheaper than gas but no company agrees and will sell you energy at that price. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 11, 2023 14:47:10 GMT
I asked you this on a different thread Pacifico but perhaps you didn't see it. What is the evidence you have to show that gas generated electricity is currently cheaper? You may be right but struggling to find evidence to prove it.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 11, 2023 14:56:08 GMT
Why would they when they can get more. That's business and doesn't change the cost of manufacture. But they cant - they refused to contract for the cheaper price. Because they wanted more. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 11, 2023 15:04:13 GMT
What energy is sold at and what it costs to produce are separate matters. Not at all. Energy is sold at a rate that companies can make a profit from it. It's all very well claiming that companies can make a profit from wind power being priced cheaper than gas but no company agrees and will sell you energy at that price. Many companies could reduce their price and still make a profit. Doesn't mean they're happy to do that. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 11, 2023 15:04:41 GMT
I asked you this on a different thread Pacifico but perhaps you didn't see it. What is the evidence you have to show that gas generated electricity is currently cheaper? You may be right but struggling to find evidence to prove it. I think he saying that the fact nobody will contract to provide anything cheaper, is evidence it is cheaper. It's where rubber meets road. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 11, 2023 15:08:02 GMT
He keeps on making the same point but shows no evidence to prove his point. He might be right but the fact that he keeps on avoiding evidence is starting to make it look very likely that is just plain wrong.
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Post by Orac on Oct 11, 2023 15:11:29 GMT
He keeps on making the same point but shows no evidence to prove his point. He might be right but the fact that he keeps on avoiding evidence is starting to make it look very likely that is just plain wrong. The fact that nobody will provide at a lower price, is evidence. Pretty good evidence, in fact |
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Post by dappy on Oct 11, 2023 15:12:55 GMT
A lower price than what?
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Post by dappy on Oct 11, 2023 15:46:58 GMT
Seems both Pacifico and Orac seem curiously reluctant to provide any back up to their claim that gas generated electricity is currently cheaper than new offshore wind developments. I remain open to being shown any evidence that this is true. Hard not to conclude there isn't any. My curiousity piqued, I have tried to do a bit of research myself. Cant say this is an area of expertise, so open to being proven wrong, but this seems to be the reality. The current wholesale price of electricity seems to be around £95 per MWH for summer 24 and around £115 for winter 24. This, as I understand it is the price the grid would pay to anyone generating electricity - including gas. The recent CFD auction for offshore wind reduced the CfD floor bidding price from £48 per MWH to £44 per MWH. Bidders had previously bid at £48 but were not prepared to go as low as £44. CfD works, as I understand it, that (on say a CFD bid of £50per MWH) if on sale the market price is below £50, the Government makes up the difference and if the market price is above £50 the generator pays the amount over £50 to the government. If therefore the market price was at the summer 24 price of £95, the generator would get £50, the government £45. This would suggest that currently wind is currently roughly half the price of gas. All that may be complete bollocks. If so happy for someone to explain why. I await Pacifico to show his workings for his contention that gas is currently cheaper. www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/wholesale-electricity-prices/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66740920 |
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Post by Orac on Oct 11, 2023 15:55:42 GMT
You just talked about a comparison between two prices yourself and now you are bewildered what i might be referring to? Mr bewildered can't even recall five minutes ago? |
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Post by dappy on Oct 11, 2023 16:04:18 GMT
Mr Bewildered understands that if you want to compare two products to see which is cheaper .
We agree I think that the people are not now prepared to invest in offshore wind power in order to sell their product for a fixed price of £44 per GWH. They have contracted in the recent past at below £48 but we know costs have increased recently. It is perhaps fair to assume that the minimum price they require is now around £50-£55per GWH
Now we need to establish what the same price is for gas.
Then we can tell which is cheaper.
As above the information I have suggests that gas generated electricity currently sells for around £100 per GWH.
My maths tells me that £50 is cheaper than £100
Happy to be shown where I am wrong.....
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 11, 2023 17:06:50 GMT
I asked you this on a different thread Pacifico but perhaps you didn't see it. What is the evidence you have to show that gas generated electricity is currently cheaper? You may be right but struggling to find evidence to prove it. Current Gas price is £39 per MWh - that is after a 25% rise this week. Last month there were no takers for supplying wind power at £44 per MWh. |
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So much for the claims that it's cheaper than gas.
