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Post by patman post on Oct 11, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
@ sandy pine — Your link is to 2017.
More recently than that, it’s been claimed that poultry hung by their legs frequently move their heads enough to miss the electrified water bath where they’re meant to be stunned, and have their throats cut and heads wrenched off while still alive.
Perhaps I’m uncaring, but although I don’t consciously buy halal or Kosher, I don’t check. Luckily, we have a genuine old style butcher just five minutes walk away, so I don’t have to make a choice.
Nor do I check when eating in local restaurants or take-aways but, thinking about it, I assume those offering Indian and Turkish cooking must use halal.
I suppose I should care more, but…
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Post by see2 on Oct 11, 2023 19:33:09 GMT
I know next to noting about the German language but it seems to be saying that something is wider than blood, could you post a full translation? Thank you. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 11, 2023 20:03:39 GMT
@ sandy pine — Your link is to 2017. More recently than that, it’s been claimed that poultry hung by their legs frequently move their heads enough to miss the electrified water bath where they’re meant to be stunned, and have their throats cut and heads wrenched off while still alive. Perhaps I’m uncaring, but although I don’t consciously buy halal or Kosher, I don’t check. Luckily, we have a genuine old style butcher just five minutes walk away, so I don’t have to make a choice. Nor do I check when eating in local restaurants or take-aways but, thinking about it, I assume those offering Indian and Turkish cooking must use halal. I suppose I should care more, but… If you want more and more recent links I can provide them. What I gave you was the background information you requested. I did not realise 6 years was pre historic. The problem was/is that Halal meat was/is being distributed to those who are not of the faith and it is illegal to do this. Unless one goes to a specific outlet the idea was that all meat sold should be in compliance with the effective stunning method as per the regulations. This was ignored by many. Not everyone can afford a select butcher. We have a one such butcher near us and the delivery vans are open to the street the greasy haired driver delivers carcases, with no Muslin, across his shoulder on which is placed a very grey looking white coat. Needless to say we do not buy our meat there. |
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Post by patman post on Oct 11, 2023 20:57:56 GMT
@ sandy pine — Your link is to 2017. More recently than that, it’s been claimed that poultry hung by their legs frequently move their heads enough to miss the electrified water bath where they’re meant to be stunned, and have their throats cut and heads wrenched off while still alive. Perhaps I’m uncaring, but although I don’t consciously buy halal or Kosher, I don’t check. Luckily, we have a genuine old style butcher just five minutes walk away, so I don’t have to make a choice. Nor do I check when eating in local restaurants or take-aways but, thinking about it, I assume those offering Indian and Turkish cooking must use halal. I suppose I should care more, but… If you want more and more recent links I can provide them. What I gave you was the background information you requested. I did not realise 6 years was pre historic. The problem was/is that Halal meat was/is being distributed to those who are not of the faith and it is illegal to do this. Unless one goes to a specific outlet the idea was that all meat sold should be in compliance with the effective stunning method as per the regulations. This was ignored by many. Not everyone can afford a select butcher. We have a one such butcher near us and the delivery vans are open to the street the greasy haired driver delivers carcases, with no Muslin, across his shoulder on which is placed a very grey looking white coat. Needless to say we do not buy our meat there. I'm not sure that I requested any more info on halal or kosher, but you've offered to provide some, so thanks.
Your explanation could explain why this evening I noticed (for the first time) restaurants and takeaways with 'Halal' stickers in their windows. Is that so they can't be accused of supplying halal to unknowing customers?
Mrs sometimes buys a little meat or fish from Ridley Road. Not my first choice for either. But I'm happy she knows what she's doing.
Frankly, if food inspectors and government vets are on the job, I'm also happy to let them get on with it.
By the way, the butcher we use most is an old-school high street butcher — father to son, I believe. Queues there every day except Monday and Sunday, despite the supermarkets around.
The more-recent, more-expensive posh one is in Church Street. Not so crowded...
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 12, 2023 7:42:42 GMT
The reason why Muslims are able to have religious courts and are exempted from animal welfare regulations is because Jews already had such privileges and have had for centuries.
The PTB could hardly deny them to Muslims without removing them from Jews too.
Are any courts in the UK above the law of the land? Isn’t it true that Beth Din and Sharia courts can only act as mediation services with both sides having to agree the outcome, and any formal signed agreement can only be enforced in accordance with the law of the land? I thought even divorce in either court had to be then enforced by a UK court. Is Halal and Kosher slaughter any worse than hunting, shooting and fishing? They also have their opponents. And on the positive side the RSPCA says that: 24 percent of sheep and goats, 19 percent of poultry and one percent of cattle slaughtered for religious purposes in England and Wales did not receive a pre-slaughter stun. This seems to show a growing acceptance of stunning. But, from my own past observations of slaughtering, I doubt all UK slaughter houses with bolt and sledgehammer are as humane as we’d like to believe… There are a few misconceptions in this stuff. Firstly the rule is that Sharia courts (or councils as they prefer to call them) or Beth Din courts are only allowed to rule on civil matters - they can't adjudicate on criminal matters. But the muslims pay no attention to this because, as under cover filming has shown, they advise fellow muslims not to go to the "Kuffar" police and they do adjudicate on criminal matters such as wife-beating for example where their usual advice to the "wife" is to do more to please their "husband". I use quotes here because the likelihood is that these people are not married according to British law. Secondly in the case of animal slaughter there are various rules that apply to Halal slaughter. As SP says the stunning is not done as agreed - the animals are not properly stunned. The other agreed law is that each animal has to be killed out of view of other animals to avoid trauma. But CCTV has shown that the rules are routinely ignored but nothing is ever don about it - in fact the CCTV is routinely disabled. Thirdly there are plenty of other exemptions for relgious groups. For example madrassas are allowed to beat their children - which is not allowed under British law. Mosques can refuse entry to women and segregate the sexes if they do. They are also exempt from the employment laws with regard to sex. Discrimination by sex is routinely practised (also applies to the Church). The "call to prayer" is also an abuse as they're not allowed to broadcast amplified "music" without a licence - which they would never get. Et cetera. All of these exemptions should be withdrawn IMO. The stupid thing about Halal slaughter is that, at the time the religious law was made this was regarded as the most painless way of slaughtering animals. It's just that we now know better but everything in the Koran is set in stone apparently. This is why the muslims are so intransigent. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 9:06:49 GMT
All of the exemptions you cite apply just as equally to Jews as they do to Muslims, but it's only Muslim practices that seem to be objectionable to you. Why is that?
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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2023 9:12:33 GMT
People who try to take over another country, kill and bully are a problem.
People who try to live a life and not do any harm to others aren't.
Take people as you find them.
Nobody should be attacked simply for being born into a community.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 11:15:36 GMT
All of the exemptions you cite apply just as equally to Jews as they do to Muslims, but it's only Muslim practices that seem to be objectionable to you. Why is that? Probably because one wasn't an apparent problem, since the Jewish community was small and didn't chop our heads off or blow up a concert full of youngsters. Obviously these exemptions, or whatever you call them, was exploited by Islamists, but to use Islamism as a means to attack the Jews seems to play into the hands of the Jihadi who seeks to undermine everything.
I guess this highlights the issues with equality where we have to treat everything as an equal in a highly diverse environment. It's disconnected from reality.
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 12, 2023 12:11:25 GMT
All of the exemptions you cite apply just as equally to Jews as they do to Muslims, but it's only Muslim practices that seem to be objectionable to you. Why is that? Are you stupid DD? I didn't think you were but many of your recent posts are pretty dumb. I've already told you that it's a matter of principle to me that religions don't get exemptions from law - any more than ideologies do. Is that clear enough? So I would also withdraw ALL exemptions for Jews too. And any other religion you can come up with. Basically religions are just an ideology - but with no basis in fact. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2023 12:17:11 GMT
OK fine. I missed your point. I agree.
What many are missing is that allowing religious exemptions for Jews makes it impossible in a liberal democracy to refuse exemptions for Muslims, no matter how comparatively small or innocuous a group the former may be.
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 12, 2023 13:33:08 GMT
There is no exemption which allows madrasas to use corporal punishment.
Hitting children in schools is illegal no matter what faith the school is.
There need to be more prosecutions to stamp this out which means educating the parents to go to the police.
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 13, 2023 7:25:49 GMT
There is no exemption which allows madrasas to use corporal punishment. Hitting children in schools is illegal no matter what faith the school is. There need to be more prosecutions to stamp this out which means educating the parents to go to the police. That's news to me. When was corporal punishment in madrassas banned in the UK? It certainly used to be an exemption. If we actually now banned it - for which I find no evidence - then it's a step in the right direction. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 13, 2023 9:39:39 GMT
There is no exemption which allows madrasas to use corporal punishment. Hitting children in schools is illegal no matter what faith the school is. There need to be more prosecutions to stamp this out which means educating the parents to go to the police. That's news to me. When was corporal punishment in madrassas banned in the UK? It certainly used to be an exemption. If we actually now banned it - for which I find no evidence - then it's a step in the right direction. Corporal punishment was banned in all schools in 1986. There are no exemptions. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 9:50:02 GMT
That's news to me. When was corporal punishment in madrassas banned in the UK? It certainly used to be an exemption. If we actually now banned it - for which I find no evidence - then it's a step in the right direction. Corporal punishment was banned in all schools in 1986. There are no exemptions. " A ban on physical beatings, including the cane, was introduced in the 1980s.
But the legislation does not cover “supplementary schools”, including many madrassas, where lessons are taught for fewer than 12.5 hours per week.
Labour pledged to close the loophole after an independent review of child safety raised concerns over the practice in early 2010, but the policy has never been enacted."
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Post by Montegriffo on Oct 13, 2023 9:59:05 GMT
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