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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 13:25:15 GMT
OK time to put this one to bed.
“6) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_British_artists”
About as illuminating as a list of black British bus drivers. What I’d be looking for are black artists in the first rank internationally. Of similar calibre to the (white) British artists usually considered to the highest-ranking by auction houses, galleries and art-historians around the world: Hogarth, Reynolds, Gainsborough, Constable, Turner, Millais, Sisley, Bacon, Freud and Hockney.
Can you name any? The biggest black name I can think of is Chris Ofili, who likes to feature elephant dung prominently in his works.
“7) Like a lot of people my age I'm not that hot on contemporary music but Stormzy, Dizzee Rascal, Estelle, Tinnie Tempah and Emeli Sande spring to mind, historically Seal, Shirley Bassey, Billy Ocean, three quarters of Eternal, Goldie, Beverly Knight, Eddy Grant, Craig David.”
I was thinking more of proper music, serious music that appeals to grown-ups.
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:25:57 GMT
That or a criminal, petty or otherwise. Critical race theory is divisive racist bollocks. Imagine having to sit through it? You couldn't have been too far away to begin with then. I was never taught black history in school but was bored more often than not. I never contemplated a life of crime. We must be built different. |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:27:07 GMT
OK time to put this one to bed. “6) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_British_artists” About as illuminating as a list of black British bus drivers. What I’d be looking for are black artists in the first rank internationally. Of similar calibre to the (white) British artists usually considered to the highest-ranking by auction houses, galleries and art-historians around the world: Hogarth, Reynolds, Gainsborough, Constable, Turner, Millais, Sisley, Bacon, Freud and Hockney. Can you name any? The biggest black name I can think of is Chris Ofili, who likes to feature elephant dung prominently in his works. “7) Like a lot of people my age I'm not that hot on contemporary music but Stormzy, Dizzee Rascal, Estelle, Tinnie Tempah and Emeli Sande spring to mind, historically Seal, Shirley Bassey, Billy Ocean, three quarters of Eternal, Goldie, Beverly Knight, Eddy Grant, Craig David.” I was thinking more of proper music, serious music that appeals to grown-ups. Right so basically you're just going to keep raising the bar? "Proper music" is entirely subjective. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 13:28:13 GMT
Think of it as something that might be played at the Proms.
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:33:26 GMT
Think of it as something that might be played at the Proms. You realise how much music of all heritages that rules out? Again a faint whiff of snobbery for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2023 13:34:11 GMT
That or a criminal, petty or otherwise. Critical race theory is divisive racist bollocks. Imagine having to sit through it? You couldn't have been too far away to begin with then. I was never taught black history in school but was bored more often than not. I never contemplated a life of crime. We must be built different. I never claimed I did, but your continued inability to comprehend my posts is noted. I wasn't force fed Marxist racist bollocks at school. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2023 13:37:04 GMT
OK time to put this one to bed. “6) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_British_artists” About as illuminating as a list of black British bus drivers. What I’d be looking for are black artists in the first rank internationally. Of similar calibre to the (white) British artists usually considered to the highest-ranking by auction houses, galleries and art-historians around the world: Hogarth, Reynolds, Gainsborough, Constable, Turner, Millais, Sisley, Bacon, Freud and Hockney. Can you name any? The biggest black name I can think of is Chris Ofili, who likes to feature elephant dung prominently in his works. “7) Like a lot of people my age I'm not that hot on contemporary music but Stormzy, Dizzee Rascal, Estelle, Tinnie Tempah and Emeli Sande spring to mind, historically Seal, Shirley Bassey, Billy Ocean, three quarters of Eternal, Goldie, Beverly Knight, Eddy Grant, Craig David.” I was thinking more of proper music, serious music that appeals to grown-ups. Right so basically you're just going to keep raising the bar? "Proper music" is entirely subjective. What about objectivity instead? |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 13:37:20 GMT
You mentioned the Krays then you moved the goalposts . Nothing that the Krays had composed with county lines drug operations . Will the next answer be about gang crime in the Elizabethan era ? I'm simply pointing out that gang crime has been a problem for well over a century so to suggest that BHM causes gang crime is, for me, laughable. No you didn’t YOU “I suppose before black history month there was no gang related crime? The Krays were just a film?“ After I pointed out that the Krays were far less powerful they are depicted in film and had nothing like an operation to compare with county lines you moved the goalposts to Victorian era. Black history may have a place alongside , Jewish history, Irish history and Roman history but it doesn’t warrant a month . Also if black people imported as cheap Labour are depicted as saviours and characters like Mary Seacole who peddled quack medicine ( allegedly) is the best example of black heroism then it looks like a it’s merely an exercise in blowing smoke up black behinds for political effect. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 13:41:09 GMT
Think of it as something that might be played at the Proms. You realise how much music of all heritages that rules out? Again a faint whiff of snobbery for me. Actually one of the criticisms levelled at the BBC Proms is that it's making over-strenuous efforts for 'diversity and inclusion'. There's an all-black orchestra on the roster most years (one from the DRC a couple of years ago) but they have a problem in that there's almost no black repertoire. So they're stuck with playing compositions by DWMs.
There's usually at last another 'exotic' offering on view as well.
But people still obstinately prefer the old favourites from the standard repertoire.
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:44:42 GMT
I'm simply pointing out that gang crime has been a problem for well over a century so to suggest that BHM causes gang crime is, for me, laughable. No you didn’t YOU “I suppose before black history month there was no gang related crime? The Krays were just a film?“ After I pointed out that the Krays were far less powerful they are depicted in film and had nothing like an operation to compare with county lines you moved the goalposts to Victorian era. Black history may have a place alongside , Jewish history, Irish history and Roman history but it doesn’t warrant a month . Also if black people imported as cheap Labour are depicted as saviours and characters like Mary Seacole who peddled quack medicine ( allegedly) is the best example of black heroism then it looks like a it’s merely an exercise in blowing smoke up black behinds for political effect. My point wasn't to suggest that the Krays were more or less powerful than today's gangs,but that suggesting that BHM causes gang crime is demonstrably untrue because the latter predates the former by decades. The fact that the crime empire of the Krays may not have been as widespread and sophisticated as some of today's gangs does not in any way challenge that point. |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:46:26 GMT
You realise how much music of all heritages that rules out? Again a faint whiff of snobbery for me. Actually one of the criticisms levelled at the BBC Proms is that it's making over-strenuous efforts for 'diversity and inclusion'. There's an all-black orchestra on the roster most years (one from the DRC a couple of years ago) but they have a problem in that there's almost no black repertoire. So they're stuck with playing compositions by DWMs.
There's usually at last another 'exotic' offering on view as well.
But people still obstinately prefer the old favourites from the standard repertoire.
So anything that hasn't been played at the BBC proms isn't proper music? That would be most music wouldn't it? |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 13:55:06 GMT
No you didn’t YOU “I suppose before black history month there was no gang related crime? The Krays were just a film?“ After I pointed out that the Krays were far less powerful they are depicted in film and had nothing like an operation to compare with county lines you moved the goalposts to Victorian era. Black history may have a place alongside , Jewish history, Irish history and Roman history but it doesn’t warrant a month . Also if black people imported as cheap Labour are depicted as saviours and characters like Mary Seacole who peddled quack medicine ( allegedly) is the best example of black heroism then it looks like a it’s merely an exercise in blowing smoke up black behinds for political effect. My point wasn't to suggest that the Krays were more or less powerful than today's gangs,but that suggesting that BHM causes gang crime is demonstrably untrue because the latter predates the former by decades. The fact that the crime empire of the Krays may not have been as widespread and sophisticated as some of today's gangs does not in any way challenge that point. You use the Krays depicted in films as an example . I pointed out that it was not a true depiction. It would have ended there, had you let it . BHM can have a negative effect on young black people if it misrepresents history as to make blacks both saviours and victims . Whether that would cause some black children to join gangs is debatable . |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 13:58:03 GMT
My point wasn't to suggest that the Krays were more or less powerful than today's gangs,but that suggesting that BHM causes gang crime is demonstrably untrue because the latter predates the former by decades. The fact that the crime empire of the Krays may not have been as widespread and sophisticated as some of today's gangs does not in any way challenge that point. You use the Krays depicted in films as an example . I pointed out that it was not a true depiction. It would have ended there, had you let it . BHM can have a negative effect on young black people if it misrepresents history as to make blacks both saviours and victims . Whether that would cause some black children to join gangs is debatable . The reference to the Krays only existing in film was a joking reference to the fact that gang crime predates BHM by decades. Is there any evidence of BHM misrepresenting history? |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 14:05:16 GMT
You use the Krays depicted in films as an example . I pointed out that it was not a true depiction. It would have ended there, had you let it . BHM can have a negative effect on young black people if it misrepresents history as to make blacks both saviours and victims . Whether that would cause some black children to join gangs is debatable . The reference to the Krays only existing in film was a joking reference to the fact that gang crime predates BHM by decades. Is there any evidence of BHM misrepresenting history? YOU ..“I suppose before black history month there was no gang related crime? The Krays were just a film?” It didn’t actually say what you now claim, did it? Had you read the post that you replied to then you might have gleaned that it suggested that there was evidence of BHM misrepresenting history. However if BHM has depicted imported cheap labour and quack medicine peddlers ( allegedly)as heroes the process of misrepresenting history has already began . |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 14:06:18 GMT
Actually one of the criticisms levelled at the BBC Proms is that it's making over-strenuous efforts for 'diversity and inclusion'. There's an all-black orchestra on the roster most years (one from the DRC a couple of years ago) but they have a problem in that there's almost no black repertoire. So they're stuck with playing compositions by DWMs.
There's usually at last another 'exotic' offering on view as well.
But people still obstinately prefer the old favourites from the standard repertoire.
So anything that hasn't been played at the BBC proms isn't proper music? That would be most music wouldn't it? Certainly most if not all of what you proposed as musical contributions by blacks to British society. |
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