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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 9:48:41 GMT
Windrush generation . Cheap Labour to undermine and suppress wages of the uppity working class .
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 10:04:16 GMT
The reference to ice skating was a metaphor they're commonly used in debate. I never made an unsubstantiated historical claim. I repeat, it’s not ice skating . It might be a metaphor commonly used by you in debate but it’s inappropriate. You posted an unsubstantiated claim and can’t support it. What unsubstantiated claim? |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 10:05:29 GMT
I repeat, it’s not ice skating . It might be a metaphor commonly used by you in debate but it’s inappropriate. You posted an unsubstantiated claim and can’t support it. What unsubstantiated claim? The one that you refused to scroll back to. |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 10:21:27 GMT
Ah right. You seem to have abandoned the Afro-Caribbean contribution and now want to focus on Africa.
600,000 eh? Where did that number from, other than the Guardian?
I'm looking at the British Army Order of Battle for WWII and find five African colonial infantry divisions active at some point during the war, two of which were disbanded in 1941 after the Italian East African campaign. The other three were not raised until mid-1943 following which they were deployed in India.
Since a British army division had 15,000 men at most I can't get the numbers to add up to 600,000, can you.
Incidentally there were a further three (white) South African divisions including one armoured. Should they get a mention in BHM too?
According to Commonwealth War Graves "Over 600,000 black men and women served with the Commonwealth between 1939-1945." www.cwgc.org/our-work/blog/black-stories-from-world-war-two-you-might-not-know/ |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 10:22:44 GMT
What unsubstantiated claim? The one that you refused to scroll back to. Not playing this game, quote this supposed claim or I'll assume you can't because it doesn't exist. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 10:32:12 GMT
The one that you refused to scroll back to. Not playing this game, quote this supposed claim or I'll assume you can't because it doesn't exist. You have been playing this game for two days . Ive pointed this out twice . You posted unsupported claims can’t support them yourself then pretend that you didn’t post them . |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 10:34:34 GMT
Ah right. You seem to have abandoned the Afro-Caribbean contribution and now want to focus on Africa.
600,000 eh? Where did that number from, other than the Guardian?
I'm looking at the British Army Order of Battle for WWII and find five African colonial infantry divisions active at some point during the war, two of which were disbanded in 1941 after the Italian East African campaign. The other three were not raised until mid-1943 following which they were deployed in India.
Since a British army division had 15,000 men at most I can't get the numbers to add up to 600,000, can you.
Incidentally there were a further three (white) South African divisions including one armoured. Should they get a mention in BHM too?
According to Commonwealth War Graves "Over 600,000 black men and women served with the Commonwealth between 1939-1945." www.cwgc.org/our-work/blog/black-stories-from-world-war-two-you-might-not-know/Quite right too. Had the Nazis and the Japanese won WW2 the future would have been bleak for them. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 10:37:32 GMT
The 600,000 figure is still unsubstantiated. We need a proper source with detailed statistics, not stray soundbites.
Anyway I'm moving on to point 2:
"2) I couldn't comment on the personal motives of every one of the windrush generation but they did do jobs that needed doing. I would have thought the pandemic would have taught us a lesson about looking down one's nose at people in supposed "low skilled" and "menial" occupations."
Ignoring the specious remark about the pandemic, I'd have thought the motivation of members of Windrush Generation was of great importance. The MultiKulti narrative holds that they arrived in their millions to rescue the Mother Country - see the BBC doco 'How Black Nurses saved the NHS' for a prime example of this. It also contends that they were invited to do so by the government of the day. Both claims are historically false.
Over to you.
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 10:39:36 GMT
Not playing this game, quote this supposed claim or I'll assume you can't because it doesn't exist. You have been playing this game for two days . Ive pointed this out twice . You posted unsupported claims can’t support them yourself then pretend that you didn’t post them . The irony in you going on and on about an unsupported claim of mine and then failing to support this accusation with any evidence. You did previously quote a post of mine where I said "I presume". I can only conclude that either you honestly can't tell the difference between the words "presume" or "claim" or you are being deliberately dishonest for reasons known only to you. Either way I'm not prepared to engage in this off topic personal sniping any longer. Good day sir. |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 10:42:13 GMT
The 600,000 figure is still unsubstantiated. We need a proper source with detailed statistics, not stray soundbites. Anyway I'm moving on to point 2: "2) I couldn't comment on the personal motives of every one of the windrush generation but they did do jobs that needed doing. I would have thought the pandemic would have taught us a lesson about looking down one's nose at people in supposed "low skilled" and "menial" occupations." Ignoring the specious remark about the pandemic, I'd have thought the motivation of members of Windrush Generation was of great importance. The MultiKulti narrative holds that they arrived in their millions to rescue the Mother Country - see the BBC doco 'How Black Nurses saved the NHS' for a prime example of this. It also contends that they were invited to do so by the government of the day. Both claims are historically false. Over to you. Sorry no, I don't see how it is relevant, some of the NHS staff who have saved the lives of loved ones of mine may have just been clocking in for a pay cheque, I don't know, but that doesn't mean they haven't made a valuable contribution nonetheless. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 27, 2023 10:44:47 GMT
You have been playing this game for two days . Ive pointed this out twice . You posted unsupported claims can’t support them yourself then pretend that you didn’t post them . The irony in you going on and on about an unsupported claim of mine and then failing to support this accusation with any evidence. You did previously quote a post of mine where I said "I presume". I can only conclude that either you honestly can't tell the difference between the words "presume" or "claim" or you are being deliberately dishonest for reasons known only to you. Either way I'm not prepared to engage in this off topic personal sniping any longer. Good day sir. I reposted my reply to your post of unsupported claims and you reacted to it. Now you are pretending it didn’t happen . Pointing out your dishonest method of debate and your projection is not sniping . |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 10:50:50 GMT
"3) I believe that the point of BHM is that the contribution of black people has often been overlooked, you asking the question backs up this argument."
As noted earlier, an immigrant arriving and taking a job that could easily have been done by a native and before the arrival of immigrants willing to work for lower pay and conditions often was, does not fall under the customary definition of a contribution. We need evidence of bring something over and above what the natives are already contributing. Just as with black nurses, cleaners and porters in the NHS, the appearance of a black bus driver is not a matter for celebration on the part of the native population.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 27, 2023 11:00:18 GMT
“4) I appreciate not everyone is a sports fan but I don't think you can credibly argue that nobody cares about the world cup, Olympics etc.” A classic strawman. Of course people care about such events but there is little evidence that blacks have contributed very much to British success in major events like the World Cup or the Olympics. Here for example is a list of the 62 British medal-winners at the Tokyo Olympics. How many were won by blacks?
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 11:17:32 GMT
"3) I believe that the point of BHM is that the contribution of black people has often been overlooked, you asking the question backs up this argument." As noted earlier, an immigrant arriving and taking a job that could easily have been done by a native and before the arrival of immigrants willing to work for lower pay and conditions often was, does not fall under the customary definition of a contribution. We need evidence of bring something over and above what the natives are already contributing. Just as with black nurses, cleaners and porters in the NHS, the appearance of a black bus driver is not a matter for celebration on the part of the native population. As I understand it there was a labour shortage after WW2 and the notion that theoretically someone else could have done the jobs they did doesn't mean they didn't make a contribution. A valid contribution doesn't have to be over and above what other people are contributing. |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 27, 2023 11:28:46 GMT
“4) I appreciate not everyone is a sports fan but I don't think you can credibly argue that nobody cares about the world cup, Olympics etc.” A classic strawman. Of course people care about such events but there is little evidence that blacks have contributed very much to British success in major events like the World Cup or the Olympics. Here for example is a list of the 62 British medal-winners at the Tokyo Olympics. How many were won by blacks?
How much is "much" by your definition? Iconic Olympic moments that spring to mind for me include Linford Christie winning the 92 100m, Dame Kelly Holmes winning a brace of golds, Mo Farrah and Jess Ennis in 2012, Daley Thompson. At the last world cup over half of England's goals were scored by black players. |
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