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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 12:17:23 GMT
My entire knowledge about Picts comes from Pink Floyd. well its one of the key defining battles of scottish history mate .The battle of dunnichen stopped the anglo saxons pushing north.Had that battle been lost , its arguable that there would never have been a scotland , and all that is now classed as britian would be called England.
Anyway , seeing as braveheart has went out with an anglo saxon whimper , what was that you were saying about some film about that french king of england? Eddie was probabaly even more despised by the native english than he was any of the celts.
Did you ever hear about the famous english monk called ranulf higden? He lived roughly about the same time as eddie and wullie wallace , and heres what he wrote about the state of affairs in England ..............
Children in school, contrary to the usage and custom of other nations, are compelled to drop their own English language and to construe their lessons and other tasks in French, and have done so since the Normans first came to England. Also, gentlemen's children are taught to speak French from the time that they are rocked in their cradles and can talk and play with a child's toy; and provincial men want to liken themselves to gentlemen, and try with great effort to speak French, so as to be more thought of.
(Polychronicon Ranulphi Higden monachi Cestrensis)
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Post by Montegriffo on Sept 23, 2023 13:16:01 GMT
My entire knowledge about Picts comes from Pink Floyd. well its one of the key defining battles of scottish history mate .The battle of dunnichen stopped the anglo saxons pushing north.Had that battle been lost , its arguable that there would never have been a scotland , and all that is now classed as britian would be called England.
Anyway , seeing as braveheart has went out with an anglo saxon whimper , what was that you were saying about some film about that french king of england? Eddie was probabaly even more despised by the native english than he was any of the celts.
Did you ever hear about the famous english monk called ranulf higden? He lived roughly about the same time as eddie and wullie wallace , and heres what he wrote about the state of affairs in England ..............
Children in school, contrary to the usage and custom of other nations, are compelled to drop their own English language and to construe their lessons and other tasks in French, and have done so since the Normans first came to England. Also, gentlemen's children are taught to speak French from the time that they are rocked in their cradles and can talk and play with a child's toy; and provincial men want to liken themselves to gentlemen, and try with great effort to speak French, so as to be more thought of.
(Polychronicon Ranulphi Higden monachi Cestrensis)
No one said Edward was a fair and just king. He was one of our most influential monarchs though. He led a full life and unlike Wallace we know a lot about him. He lasted 35 years on the big chair too. Not bad for a medieval warlord. He fought in the Baron's revolt. He was captured and ransomed several times and escaped successfully on more than one occasion. He eventually defeated De Montfort and mercilessly killed all his Barons rather than ransom them. Then to top it off he sent De Montfort's wife his severed head with his testicles hanging from each side of his nose. He went on crusade. He made huge amounts of money by throwing the Jews out of England and spent it on war. He built the largest trebuchet the world has ever known (possibly as tall as 250') and refused to accept the surrender of Sterling castle until he'd used it. That's a badass move right there. He subdued the Welsh and built some of the finest castles the world has seen to keep them in their place. ...and that was all before he had your guy hung drawn and quartered and earned his nickname as hammer of the scots. You wouldn't need to make things up to keep a film about Edward I interesting. |
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 13:29:29 GMT
well its one of the key defining battles of scottish history mate .The battle of dunnichen stopped the anglo saxons pushing north.Had that battle been lost , its arguable that there would never have been a scotland , and all that is now classed as britian would be called England.
Anyway , seeing as braveheart has went out with an anglo saxon whimper , what was that you were saying about some film about that french king of england? Eddie was probabaly even more despised by the native english than he was any of the celts.
Did you ever hear about the famous english monk called ranulf higden? He lived roughly about the same time as eddie and wullie wallace , and heres what he wrote about the state of affairs in England ..............
Children in school, contrary to the usage and custom of other nations, are compelled to drop their own English language and to construe their lessons and other tasks in French, and have done so since the Normans first came to England. Also, gentlemen's children are taught to speak French from the time that they are rocked in their cradles and can talk and play with a child's toy; and provincial men want to liken themselves to gentlemen, and try with great effort to speak French, so as to be more thought of.
(Polychronicon Ranulphi Higden monachi Cestrensis)
No one said Edward was a fair and just king. He was one of our most influential monarchs though. He led a full life and unlike Wallace we know a lot about him. He lasted 35 years on the big chair too. Not bad for a medieval warlord. He fought in the Baron's revolt. He was captured and ransomed several times and escaped successfully on more than one occasion. He eventually defeated De Montfort and mercilessly killed all his Barons rather than ransom them. Then to top it off he sent De Montfort's wife his severed head with his testicles hanging from each side of his nose. He went on crusade. He made huge amounts of money by throwing the Jews out of England and spent it on war. He built the largest trebuchet the world has ever known (possibly as tall as 250') and refused to accept the surrender of Sterling castle until he'd used it. That's a badass move right there. He subdued the Welsh and built some of the finest castles the world has seen to keep them in their place. ...and that was all before he had your guy hung drawn and quartered and earned his nickname as hammer of the scots. You wouldn't need to make things up to keep a film about Edward I interesting. eh?
i didnt say he was fair , just and he wasnt king of my country. I simply said he was a frenchman , who spoke french as his lingua franca and materna . The point ranulf higden is making is the divisions between the foreign french nobility of england and the lowly english serfs , in terms of language and culture.
Come to think of it , im helping you out here. Another factual inaccuracy in braveheart is the cast speaking english instead of french and gaelic.
thats because he was a king. We have so little scottish recorded history for evidnece monte, because the records were all either stolen or burnt. Much of what we know about wallace comes from a bard centuries later , who kept the scottish folklore alive , and from records preserved in england and france.
ultimately though . edward the first was a failure in terms of his foreign policy , who practiacally nearly bankrupted england . He couldnt conquer scotland and hold us , his legacy turned to ashes in france as his descedants lost all their french possessions , and about the only success story that he passed on was his conqeust of wales.
A flawed man , who turned bitter at all his failures.
Still if you want to make a film about some french guy the native contemporary english despised , who am i to dissuade you monte.?
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Post by Montegriffo on Sept 23, 2023 13:55:01 GMT
You could argue that it was the lessons learnt from fighting the Welsh and Scots that led to Edward's descendants winning all their great battles in the Hundred Year war.
Wallace's winning tactic of fighting in defence, on foot against overwhelming cavalry forces was utilized by Edward's grandson at Crecy along with the Welsh longbow developed into a mass volley weapon.
It wasn't a failure of Plantagenet tactics that lost the Hundred Year war it was the improvement in canon making castles obsolete.
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 14:18:26 GMT
You could argue that it was the lessons learnt from fighting the Welsh and Scots that led to Edward's descendants winning all their great battles in the Hundred Year war. Wallace's winning tactic of fighting in defence, on foot against overwhelming cavalry forces was utilized by Edward's grandson at Crecy along with the Welsh longbow developed into a mass volley weapon. It wasn't a failure of Plantagenet tactics that lost the Hundred Year war it was the improvement in canon making castles obsolete. its inarguable the plantagenets were a failure of a dynasty who eventually even lost the english crown , never mind all thier lands in their native homeland , France.
you lost the hundred years war. what are you talking about?
are you talking about the schiltrom formations? this wasnt a wallace strategy. He was famous for guerilla warfare rather than tactical nous in open battle Bruce was the military genius who copied the schiltom idea from the flemish. I think i said to you before , the english heavy cavalry bearing down on scottish schiltroms formations was the equivalent of world war one soldiers fightng tanks with rifles and winning.
might have done. Not sure how reliable the welsh were in france , as they continued to rebel against their english oppressors under owain glyndr. Crecy ultimately was a winning battle in a losing war. The scottish helped save france after crecy at the battle of bauge , an event still celebrated in france today when a scottish army wiped out english forces in france when the french were on their knees , and scottish nobles were rewarded by the french king for their services.
perhaps , but whatever the medieval weapons at hand , the plantagenet dynasty ultimately was a failure.
We have went from the op arguing braveheart was all nonsense to now our indomitable anglo friends using eddie longshanks , the frenchman , as a shield. 
the bottom line is monte ,england lost france , and coudlnt militarily conquer scotland. No amount of excuses is going to wash that military stain out mate.
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Post by walterpaisley on Sept 23, 2023 14:25:54 GMT
Wally's forthcoming retread of El Cid Just a small correction: Our show is emphatically NOT the story of "El Cid". In our yarn, Mr de Vivar (the character is never referred to as "Cid" is a minor villain (which, along with the casting, has already caused a certain degree of nonsense among the Spanish far right..). (His portrayal has been "approved" by leading historians of the period from three countries.) He's just a supporting figure in a fantasy set against the backdrop of the Andalusian Caliphate, the kingdoms of Leon and Castile, and the beginnings of a disastrous period of civil war. (Each of the planned seasons is self-contained, and takes place in a different historical setting - from 13th century Mali and 6th century Byzantium to 1970s Washington, etc..) |
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Post by Ripley on Sept 23, 2023 14:27:20 GMT
You could argue that it was the lessons learnt from fighting the Welsh and Scots that led to Edward's descendants winning all their great battles in the Hundred Year war. Wallace's winning tactic of fighting in defence, on foot against overwhelming cavalry forces was utilized by Edward's grandson at Crecy along with the Welsh longbow developed into a mass volley weapon. It wasn't a failure of Plantagenet tactics that lost the Hundred Year war it was the improvement in canon making castles obsolete.
might have done. Not sure how reliable the welsh were in france , as they continued to rebel against their english oppressors under owain glyndr. Crecy ultimately was a winning battle in a losing war. The scottish helped save france after crecy at the battle of bauge , an event still celebrated in france today when a scottish army wiped out english forces in france when the french were on their knees , and scottish nobles were rewarded by the french king for their services.
Yes, in fact after the Battle of Baugé, the 4th Earl of Douglas was the first foreigner and also the first non-royal to ever be granted ducal status in France when they conferred on him the title of Duke of Touraine.
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 14:36:54 GMT
Yes, in fact after the Battle of Baugé, the 4th Earl of Douglas was the first foreigner and also the first non-royal to ever be granted ducal status in France when they conferred on him the title of Duke of Touraine.
one of the oldest regiments in the french army was the gardes eccosaise. They were still issuing commands in gaelic to the troopers until they were disbanded in the 19th century. tam muir of hunterhill was the first non frenchman to become a citizen of the new french republic after the french revolution. French universities were full of scottish students across the centuries , and of course it was a 700 year old law , only rescinded (arguably) in 1906 during the entente coridale negotiations between britian and france that all scottish men woman and children were automatically french citizens.
Franco-Scottish alliance against England one of longest in history
A University of Manchester historian has uncovered evidence which shows how a defensive alliance against England between Scotland and France might never have formally ended – potentially making it the longest in history.
J. Macpherson, published in Scottish Field in 1967, says Dr Talbott, showed that France refused to accept Westminster’s abrogation of the Scottish side of the Auld Alliance in 1906, following the Entente Cordiale between Britain and France. By French law, a Scotsman born before 1907 still possesses the full rights and privileges of Franco-Scottish nationality.
The 716-year-old citizenship and trading privileges enjoyed by Scots in France, she suggests, are possibly intact today.
Scottish merchants paid less or no customs at some French ports, whereas some ports would not trade with the English at all.
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Post by Vinny on Sept 23, 2023 14:57:05 GMT
If there'd been a car chase in Braveheart, and a gunfight it still wouldn't have undermined the historical accuracy as much as Mel Gibson's shit film did.
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Post by Ripley on Sept 23, 2023 15:02:26 GMT
one of the oldest regiments in the french army was the gardes eccosaise. They were still issuing commands in gaelic to the troopers until they were disbanded in the 19th century. tam muir of hunterhill was the first non frenchman to become a citizen of the new french republic after the french revolution. French universities were full of scottish students across the centuries , and of course it was a 700 year old law , only rescinded (arguably) in 1906 during the entente coridale negotiations between britian and france that all scottish men woman and children were automatically french citizens.
Franco-Scottish alliance against England one of longest in history
A University of Manchester historian has uncovered evidence which shows how a defensive alliance against England between Scotland and France might never have formally ended – potentially making it the longest in history.
J. Macpherson, published in Scottish Field in 1967, says Dr Talbott, showed that France refused to accept Westminster’s abrogation of the Scottish side of the Auld Alliance in 1906, following the Entente Cordiale between Britain and France. By French law, a Scotsman born before 1907 still possesses the full rights and privileges of Franco-Scottish nationality.
The 716-year-old citizenship and trading privileges enjoyed by Scots in France, she suggests, are possibly intact today.
Scottish merchants paid less or no customs at some French ports, whereas some ports would not trade with the English at all.
Très intéressant! Can you envisage a future time when the Auld Alliance, or somethin akin to it, might be rekindled? |
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 15:03:25 GMT
If there'd been a car chase in Braveheart, and a gunfight it still wouldn't have undermined the historical accuracy as much as Mel Gibson's shit film did. thats nice vincent. Now you were telling me whats historically inaccurate before falling off the cliff.
So far , in a film three hours long , spanning 44 years of scottish history , you have managed to rake up two things , isabella of france , and face paint as being definetly wrong , and a bit of ambiguity over some characters real names. By the way , william wallace wasnt called william wallace in real life. His real name is recorded as le walys in french , and his native scottish name as Uilleam Uallas .
Over to you mate. take your time , and try and back up your claims the film was totally inaccurate.
By the way , did you know that i potentially still have my franco scottish citizenship making me a european vincent? 
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Post by Bentley on Sept 23, 2023 15:04:01 GMT
If there'd been a car chase in Braveheart, and a gunfight it still wouldn't have undermined the historical accuracy as much as Mel Gibson's shit film did. Don’t burst their bubble Vinny .Before Braveheart they only had SuperGran . |
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 15:08:58 GMT
one of the oldest regiments in the french army was the gardes eccosaise. They were still issuing commands in gaelic to the troopers until they were disbanded in the 19th century. tam muir of hunterhill was the first non frenchman to become a citizen of the new french republic after the french revolution. French universities were full of scottish students across the centuries , and of course it was a 700 year old law , only rescinded (arguably) in 1906 during the entente coridale negotiations between britian and france that all scottish men woman and children were automatically french citizens.
Franco-Scottish alliance against England one of longest in history
A University of Manchester historian has uncovered evidence which shows how a defensive alliance against England between Scotland and France might never have formally ended – potentially making it the longest in history.
J. Macpherson, published in Scottish Field in 1967, says Dr Talbott, showed that France refused to accept Westminster’s abrogation of the Scottish side of the Auld Alliance in 1906, following the Entente Cordiale between Britain and France. By French law, a Scotsman born before 1907 still possesses the full rights and privileges of Franco-Scottish nationality.
The 716-year-old citizenship and trading privileges enjoyed by Scots in France, she suggests, are possibly intact today.
Scottish merchants paid less or no customs at some French ports, whereas some ports would not trade with the English at all.
Très intéressant! Can you envisage a future time when the Auld Alliance, or somethin akin to it, might be rekindled? i dont think its ever been extinguished ripley. we have the consulate general of france based in scotland , the good professor makes the claim the formal auld alliance has never been formally ended , and there are still strong ties between the two countries today , culturally lingusitically , and in business and politics. The french military uses scottish songs , and there are statues all over france to scottish soldiers who have died fighting for france all over the centuries. My own grandfather was one of them.
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Post by thomas on Sept 23, 2023 15:10:11 GMT
If there'd been a car chase in Braveheart, and a gunfight it still wouldn't have undermined the historical accuracy as much as Mel Gibson's shit film did. Don’t burst their bubble Vinny .Before Braveheart they only had SuperGran . what do you fink ben e . is the earth really only 6000 years old or not? |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 23, 2023 15:16:21 GMT
Don’t burst their bubble Vinny .Before Braveheart they only had SuperGran . what do you fink ben e . is the earth really only 6000 years old or not? Darling seems to pulling your strings Tommy. Dont tell me you didn’t think supergran was real. You seem to be easily fooled. How’s the bid for FREEDOM! going? Not good I hear .😁 |
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