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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 15:33:37 GMT
Yes, it is literally ridiculous, surreal even, intentionally so I would have thought, to bring your own belief-system and demands for 'explanations' into sharp relief.
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 15:36:20 GMT
Do you think so Dan. It stopped at ridiculous for me.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2022 16:00:57 GMT
I do hope you didn't think that Mags "question" was anything other than ridiculous, Dan It depends how you view a country and/or a nation. Most countries/nations comprise people of similar ethnicities and similar cultural values. That is what invariably makes them work as countries or nations. They see themselves ruled or governed or administered by those who are of them. If the Chinese Communist Party comprised of a different ethnic group than the bulk of the population it is very likely it would have been overthrown many years ago. The British lost rule in India becasue they were not Indian despite having in many instances deposed/replaced/superseded some pretty despotic ruling classes. So mixed ethnic groups will always raise issues of unfairness to one or the other even if a government desperately tries to be fair. Not seeing the issues surrounding Multiculturalism/multiethnicity seems at best idiotic and there is little doubt we are storing up long term problems that no matter how many times you sit round a campfire sing We shall overcome will always raise its ugly but inevitable head. Unfortunately that is reality. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 16:16:38 GMT
Do I understand you right Sandy? Lets look at two children. A child "A" is born here, raised here, educated here. Another child "B" is also born here, raised here, educated here. They are of roughly equivalent family wealth and the parents have similar education standards. Broadly they are very similar except that child A's parents were born in Poznan and child B's in Preston. You see child A has bringing major future problems to the country not seen with child B. Is that what you are arguing.
Does you view change in child A, instead of being born to parents from Posnan was instead born to parents from Pune?
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2022 16:26:28 GMT
Do I understand you right Sandy? Lets look at two children. A child "A" is born here, raised here, educated here. Another child "B" is also born here, raised here, educated here. They are of roughly equivalent family wealth and the parents have similar education standards. Broadly they are very similar except that child A's parents were born in Poznan and child B's in Preston. You see child A has bringing major future problems to the country not seen with child B. Is that what you are arguing. Does you view change in child A, instead of being born to parents from Posnan was instead born to parents from Pune? You are missing out some important elements. Where a baby is born is of no real consequence. What culture and ethnicity it is born into is what makes the child what it will become. A child born in Melbourne to ethnic Brits can be much more at home in the UK than a child born in Birmingham but to an ethnic minority. THis feeds into governance as we are continually trying to coalesce different ethnic groups into a Greater Britain and in effect we are failing as resentment on all sides is still palpable and measuring ethnicities in power, in government, in almost anything is a National pastime for most ethnic groups and always someone can point easily to injustice. We see it daily. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 16:32:36 GMT
You avoided the question, Sandy.
The one piece of substance in your post is your claim that a child born in Melbourne and (presumably) raised and educated there to parents born in Birmingham is more likely to be at home returning to live in Milton Keynes than a child born, raised and educated in Birmingham to parents born in Melbourne. What utter tosh.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2022 16:36:27 GMT
Do I understand you right Sandy? Lets look at two children. A child "A" is born here, raised here, educated here. Another child "B" is also born here, raised here, educated here. They are of roughly equivalent family wealth and the parents have similar education standards. Broadly they are very similar except that child A's parents were born in Poznan and child B's in Preston. You see child A has bringing major future problems to the country not seen with child B. Is that what you are arguing. Does you view change in child A, instead of being born to parents from Posnan was instead born to parents from Pune? Of course it will be different - if you add numbers, the effect is likely to be significant. I can't imagine how much reality you would have to ignore to pretend this isn't case. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 16:49:15 GMT
In what way in your view would the British born, raised and educated child with Polish born parents (child A)be different as say a 25 year old than a similarly British born raised and educated child with British born parents (child B) (all other things eg income and parental education being similar). Indeed why would child A bring "major problems" at that age?
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2022 17:13:34 GMT
In what way in your view would the British born, raised and educated child with Polish born parents (child A)be different as say a 25 year old than a similarly British born raised and educated child with British born parents (child B) How do you mean in what way?? This seems like another silly question designed to avoid rather than cast light. Of course i can't quantify the particular differences in a reference to a single hypothetical individual. The child's familial culture will have evolved in a different setting and will be a response to different pressures, priorities and equilibria. That is one reason. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 7, 2022 17:40:19 GMT
In what way in your view would the British born, raised and educated child with Polish born parents (child A)be different as say a 25 year old than a similarly British born raised and educated child with British born parents (child B) (all other things eg income and parental education being similar). Indeed why would child A bring "major problems" at that age? Life choices, right down to the food he likes. Meatballs anyone. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 17:52:34 GMT
Interesting isn’t it.
Child A will apparently cause “major problems” but when asked what these problems would be, Mags can’t think of anything and another poster feels they may be more partial to meatballs.
You couldn’t make it up.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 7, 2022 18:03:18 GMT
Interesting isn’t it. Child A will apparently cause “major problems” but when asked what these problems would be, Mags can’t think of anything and another poster feels they may be more partial to meatballs. You couldn’t make it up. You are the master of making things up. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2022 18:05:19 GMT
Interesting isn’t it. Child A will apparently cause “major problems” but when asked what these problems would be, Mags can’t think of anything Oh come now - no need to be so dishonest. I clearly can't quantify the differences in a particular and hypothetical child. I explained one source of the differences and the rest is really up to your common sense. You are arguing against the obvious, so i don't have to make lists that precise one individual you drew from your imagination and so can be anything you want him to be.. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 18:11:36 GMT
A problem with dappy's micro-analysis technique is that it simply does not scale so its results are not reliable. There's also the question of cherry-picked sample selection.
Try it again with half a million children from A and the same from B, where A and B are known to be locations with very different socio-cultural characteristics. Not Carshalton and Krakau for example, but Carshalton and Lagos, Karachi and Cairo, say.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2022 18:28:54 GMT
Indeed, Dan. It's the aggregate that is important because a societal equilibrium / deal forms around the aggregate. Change the aggregate and you change the shape society is most likely to be.
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