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Post by Steve on Nov 7, 2022 12:12:28 GMT
"You still have your figures wrong I am afraid. For births where ethnicity is known, 74% of children were white (of which 62% white British and 12% other white skinned - (presumably mostly to east europeans). " This doesn't seem so very different to the figures I gave for the ten-year period: 63% white British. The 'white other' is 10% not 12% according to the ONS. "The average for the last ten years was 75%, so rate seems to have broadly stabilised." The white British live births figure has reduced from 66% in 2010 to 59% over the ten-year period, so this has been anything but stable. Dropping like a stone more like, and not just in terms of percentage - white British live births were almost 100,000 less in 2019 compared to ten years earlier. It's the future of white, native Britons that is my concern, not the colour of the skin of the imported worker bees and their offspring who you deem to be essential. That seems to be a difficult concept for you to grapple with, why is that? Studies indicate that the birth rates for second and further generation ethnic minorities start to align with UK norms. Educated women of all ethnicities tend to like the ability to have higher standards of living by having successful working careers. So (typos aside) your figures may be right but the immediate impression they give might be misleading.
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Post by jaydee on Nov 7, 2022 12:23:31 GMT
It's the future of white, native Britons that is my concern, Hitler and the Nazis identified Germans as members of the “Aryan” race. According to the Nazis, Aryans were at the top of the racial hierarchy. This is why the Nazis referred to German Aryans as the “master race.”. Straight out of UKIP/EDL/BNP thinking. England the new white supremacist master race. Seig Heil. The radicalisation of the English is in progress. What chapter of Mein Kampf are you on. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ&ab_channel=ArDell
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 12:28:05 GMT
Studies also indicate that, on average, it takes a number of years, as many as 70, between the birth-rate of a population falling to replacement level and that population stabilising. This is the principle of 'demographic overhang'.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 7, 2022 12:29:45 GMT
It's the future of white, native Britons that is my concern, Hitler and the Nazis identified Germans as members of the “Aryan” race. According to the Nazis, Aryans were at the top of the racial hierarchy. This is why the Nazis referred to German Aryans as the “master race.”. Straight out of UKIP/EDL/BNP thinking. England the new white supremacist master race. Seig Heil. The radicalisation of the English is in progress. What chapter of Mein Kampf are you on. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ&ab_channel=ArDellI suggest you put a paper bag over your mouth and breathe deeply.
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 12:30:43 GMT
Well no Dan - you don't seem to be able to get basic maths right.
For Babies where ethnicity was recorded , in 2019 white British babies was 62% and white babies overall 74% The average over the last ten years was 65% and 75%
Assuming they continue to live here into adult life the vast majority of those non British White babies will quite rightly regard themselves as British white adults.
In absolute numbers, It is true to say that absolute white British birth rates are dropping fast - 476k in 2011 down to 378k in 2019. Non "british" white babies have increased - keeping the proportion of babies that have white skin overall fairly constant (74% in 2019 compared to 75% average over last ten years) The absolute number of non white babies is virtually static in this decade (161k in 2011 162k in 2019)
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 12:30:58 GMT
It's the future of white, native Britons that is my concern, Hitler and the Nazis identified Germans as members of the “Aryan” race. According to the Nazis, Aryans were at the top of the racial hierarchy. This is why the Nazis referred to German Aryans as the “master race.”. Straight out of UKIP/EDL/BNP thinking. England the new white supremacist master race. Seig Heil. The radicalisation of the English is in progress. What chapter of Mein Kampf are you on. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ&ab_channel=ArDellThis is why I will be taking further discussions of this type to the Mind Zone where, hopefully, the mods will know how to deal with mindless and insulting inanities like this.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 12:43:55 GMT
Well no Dan - you don't seem to be able to get basic maths right. For Babies where ethnicity was recorded , in 2019 white British babies was 62% and white babies overall 74% The average over the last ten years was 65% and 75% Assuming they continue to live here into adult life the vast majority of those non British White babies will quite rightly regard themselves as British white adults. In absolute numbers, It is true to say that absolute white British birth rates are dropping fast - 476k in 2011 down to 378k in 2019. Non "british" white babies have increased - keeping the proportion of babies that have white skin overall fairly constant (74% in 2019 compared to 75% average over last ten years) The absolute number of non white babies is virtually static in this decade (161k in 2011 162k in 2019) Once again dappy, it is not the skin colour of babies that is the primary concern, it is their ethnicity.
And let's look again at the 2019 numbers:
Total live births 639,987
White British 377,916 Non-white British 236,493 (includes 74,432 'white other')
Not stated 25,578
What you appear to want to do is deduct the 'not stated' from the total and express the WB births as a proportion of that. This does, as you appear to claim, provide a white British live birth total of 61.5% in 2019, rather than the 59% I calculated. Hardly a game-changing difference.
So fair enough, we'll do it your way. But that doesn't do anything to the rate of change over the ten year period.
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 12:59:21 GMT
If you are going to quote numbers, Dan, it is quite important to get the numbers right.
It is not immediately clear what difference it makes what colour skin babies have or what their "ethnicity" is. All these kids have been born in Britain and the majority are likely to be schooled here and make their lives here. Its hard to understand what difference it makes to you whether they have white or brown skin, its even harder to understand what difference it makes to you whether the parents of British young adults were born in Worcester or Warsaw.
As I pointed out to you, the number of non white children born over the 201* decade has been pretty constant - bouncing around 160k to 170k annually.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 13:38:42 GMT
We should probably put aside any further discussion on 'what difference does it make' since it is clear our worldviews are in complete opposition about this. There is no value in pursuing that point any further any more than there is for me to express my bafflement that you should be so eager to pass over our national patrimony to foreigners and their offspring, very likely at the expense of your own descendants (and mine too).
As for those offspring being turned into replica English people through the educational system, I have to say this is more an article of faith then anything else. There is certainly not much empirical evidence for the successful implementation of this swingeingly expensive acculturation process thus far, even after seventy years or so.
Finally, yes it's true that the non-white birth figures have been relatively consistent over the decade, but that is against a background of plummeting white British births and indeed of births as a whole. What we haven't seen so far is the much-ballyhooed close convergence with native birth rates which we have been told to expect any time now. For some ethnic groups eg Pakistani it seems as far away as ever.
I'll be continuing this general theme later in the Mind Zone, this thread seems to run its course here.
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 13:49:56 GMT
What difference does it make is surely fundamental to any conversation. I note you haven't explained to me what difference it will make in 25 years time whether a child born in Worcester, educated in Worcester and say Manchester and now working in London happens to have parents born in Krakow or Carshalton.
There is a valid conversation to be had about why birth rates among some groups are falling. For me the issue is not race and ethnicity on which you seem to obsess, but in educational level reached. Not sure there are any figures available but I would be fairly confident that the big drop in "white British" births has come mainly from the more highly educated. That could cause serious issues in future years.
Incidentally the number of births to Pakistani parents is almost completely static over the last decade at around 27,000 per year.
By all means move conversation to mind zone. I am not convinced the level of conversation there will be sustainably higher. We tried an asylum thread there which started OK but has now descended into the usual one line bickering.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2022 14:04:47 GMT
What difference does it make is surely fundamental to any conversation. I note you haven't explained to me what difference it will make in 25 years time whether a child born in Worcester, educated in Worcester and say Manchester and now working in London happens to have parents born in Krakow or Carshalton. This is a silly question because the difference, while obviously there, is going to be complex and you can additionally simply discount any claim as speculation. If your position is positively that is that 'it makes no difference', then your position sits on a laughable premise. Lets try another question - if the government takes your house off you and gives it to gypsies, what difference does it make?
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 7, 2022 14:10:26 GMT
It's basically about evolution. Humans, or animals, develop differently if they evolve for centuries in different environments. It's pointless to try to deny this because Darwin demonstrated the facts when he researched the evolution of various species on the Galapagos islands. They can in fact eventually become a different species.
And the humans who spent centuries in Africa evolved differently from those who came to Europe. I won't say that those that lived in Europe became more intelligent because that's non-PC now, but it's significant that the Africans hadn't even invented the wheel while other races had developed very sophisticated technology. But of course it's nothing to do with them being of lower intelligence. However what cannot be argued with is that Blacks are, in many sports, considerably better athletes. Those years of running everywhere (rather than driving) have given them a big advantage over the whites. Of course the centuries of exercising our minds have not given us any advantage at all.
But the fact is that you can't bring people from Africa (or wherever) to Europe and expect them to behave like whites. Because they don't.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 7, 2022 14:14:45 GMT
We need less people in the world not more, and no I do not advocate killing some of them off, it makes sense to me anyway that we need to conserve the meagre resources the world has left, China for years limited families to only one child and preferable a male
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 7, 2022 14:54:31 GMT
Lets try another question - if the government takes your house off you and gives it to gypsies, what difference does it make? The difficulty with dappy's world-view is that he appears quite sanquine about sharing not only his own resources with newcomers he's never met but also yours too.
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2022 15:10:20 GMT
I do hope you didn't think that Mags "question" was anything other than ridiculous, Dan
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