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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 16:28:02 GMT
Hi @tincullin. Im unsure of the rules regarding responding to your reply to me in the ukraine thread , from which i have now been banned , so ive started this thread here to continue our discussion if allowed , on the wider hypocrisy of aspects of the current war. Feel free to delete if im breaking some rule im unaware of.
Heres your post from earlier with my reply....
yes you have. I once again acknowledge this , and have never argued contrary .So in effect this is a straw man that you are accusing me of . The point im clearly making time and again is international law applies to all or none. Russia cant have demands of compliance while other nations like the united states are let off for their transgressions. You are very vocal on russia complying , but have to be dragged kicking and screaming to condemn america , so im highlighting your constant lack of balance.
im paying perfect attention to what is written. Accusing people of lacking attention to the nuance and detail of a post is poor form. Perhaps you could highlight where you feel im doing so instead of vaguely generalising to shut down debate??
im sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you can prove where i have lied or made a false accusation , and if so i will retract and issue an apology.  I dont believe i have done so !
ive demonstrated your and others whataboutery in this thread numerous times. you cannot isolate the ukraine war into being a simple bi lateral war when its a multi lateral war involving many nations , wether on the field of battle or in terms of funding and arms , and demands of russia to comply with what you regard as international norms .
You constantly bring in non russian or ukrainians examples into this debate as a means to further your argument , then when others do so in reply , you shut down the debate and claim the breaking of some obscure forum rule?
surely if you have to resort to banning particpants in threads , it shows you are losing the argument?
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Post by Montegriffo on Sept 2, 2023 16:45:51 GMT
Hi @tincullin. Im unsure of the rules regarding responding to your reply to me in the ukraine thread , from which i have now been banned , so ive started this thread here to continue our discussion if allowed , on the wider hypocrisy of aspects of the current war. Feel free to delete if im breaking some rule im unaware of.
Heres your post from earlier with my reply....
yes you have. I once again acknowledge this , and have never argued contrary .So in effect this is a straw man that you are accusing me of . The point im clearly making time and again is international law applies to all or none. Russia cant have demands of compliance while other nations like the united states are let off for their transgressions. You are very vocal on russia complying , but have to be dragged kicking and screaming to condemn america , so im highlighting your constant lack of balance.
im paying perfect attention to what is written. Accusing people of lacking attention to the nuance and detail of a post is poor form. Perhaps you could highlight where you feel im doing so instead of vaguely generalising to shut down debate??
im sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you can prove where i have lied or made a false accusation , and if so i will retract and issue an apology. I dont believe i have done so !
ive demonstrated your and others whataboutery in this thread numerous times. you cannot isolate the ukraine war into being a simple bi lateral war when its a multi lateral war involving many nations , wether on the field of battle or in terms of funding and arms , and demands of russia to comply with what you regard as international norms .
You constantly bring in non russian or ukrainians examples into this debate as a means to further your argument , then when others do so in reply , you shut down the debate and claim the breaking of some obscure forum rule?
surely if you have to resort to banning particpants in threads , it shows you are losing the argument?
I would recommend you test all tea for polonium for the next few days. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 16:48:39 GMT
I think you are going to struggle to claim that America has no complaints about what they do around the globe. Going right back to Vietnam we have had numerous demonstrations and marches in the UK complaining about American foreign policy decisions.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 2, 2023 17:45:47 GMT
I'm not sure I recall many demos protesting recent US-led sabre-rattling efforts along the Russian border. In particular those that occured in the several years prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
As I recall it all kicked off with Donald Rumsfeld's remarks about 'Old' and 'New' Europe, the former being particularly reluctant to join in on US-led neo-imperialist adventures in the Middle East, and the War on Turr in general.
The UK being of course an honorary member of 'New' Europe along with the former members of the Warsaw Pact that the US fast-tracked for NATO membership.
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Post by sheepy on Sept 2, 2023 18:20:06 GMT
LOL @ Thomas, I won't be silenced, it's just a democracy forum Thomas, oh but wait!
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 18:29:18 GMT
I think you are going to struggle to claim that America has no complaints about what they do around the globe. Going right back to Vietnam we have had numerous demonstrations and marches in the UK complaining about American foreign policy decisions. pacifico , im being accused by tincullin of not reading posts properly and yet you are doing the same with me. I havent said any of this , and in fact , i specifically made my point to tincullin about him only criticising the yanks when dragged kicking and screaming to do so.
On your wider point , about how the world perceives american behaviour , i fully agree. Why arent we ( as in the yookay) therefore taking measures along with the internaitonal community to ban american football teams , athletes , sanction them , etc etc to be consistent with them as we are with russia ?
wheres the outrage on the forum from ukrainain virtue signallers on dead syrian babies , or interference in uk politics ( i absolve you of this as you have criticised the yanks over northern ireland and brexit) etc etc?
It all seems very unbalanced against russia from my point of view.
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 18:37:32 GMT
I'm not sure I recall many demos protesting recent US-led sabre-rattling efforts along the Russian border. In particular those that occured in the several years prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As I recall it all kicked off with Donald Rumsfeld's remarks about 'Old' and 'New' Europe, the former being particularly reluctant to join in on US-led neo-imperialist adventures in the Middle East, and the War on Turr in general. The UK being of course an honorary member of 'New' Europe along with the former members of the Warsaw Pact that the US fast-tracked for NATO membership. fully agree. What is new europe though , other than a collection of former powers now reduced to washington arse licking and vassal state status? While reading all the screams about ukrainian rights on trade and democracy free of interference , why arent the defenders of liberty barely mentioning (if at all ) the yookay being banned from fully brexiting on american say so , or germany being free to buy russian gas if need be?
The hungarian president said something about liberal in europe once meaning freedom , now meaning against freedoms. The same applies to the changing meaning of NATO. Once it was supposed to be a defensive alliance , now its merely a construct that furthers american foriegn policy.
Why dont we shut westminster and holyrood down , and start sending representatives to washington and be done with it?
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 18:41:05 GMT
LOL @ Thomas, I won't be silenced, it's just a democracy forum Thomas, oh but wait! at least im trying to have a debate sheepwash , which is after all what a forum is all about ...conflicting views , rather then sitting screaming kill the invader like a mindless drone.
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Post by sheepy on Sept 2, 2023 18:45:14 GMT
LOL @ Thomas, I won't be silenced, it's just a democracy forum Thomas, oh but wait! at least im trying to have a debate sheepwash , which is after all what a forum is all about ...conflicting views , rather then sitting screaming kill the invader like a mindless drone.
Which is surely not the first time you have come up against it, or at least seen others come up against it. |
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Post by thomas on Sept 2, 2023 19:15:07 GMT
at least im trying to have a debate sheepwash , which is after all what a forum is all about ...conflicting views , rather then sitting screaming kill the invader like a mindless drone.
Which is surely not the first time you have come up against it, or at least seen others come up against it. as you know sheepy been there seen it done it. sad though. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2023 21:25:14 GMT
I think you are going to struggle to claim that America has no complaints about what they do around the globe. Going right back to Vietnam we have had numerous demonstrations and marches in the UK complaining about American foreign policy decisions. pacifico , im being accused by tincullin of not reading posts properly and yet you are doing the same with me. I havent said any of this , and in fact , i specifically made my point to tincullin about him only criticising the yanks when dragged kicking and screaming to do so. On your wider point , about how the world perceives american behaviour , i fully agree. Why arent we ( as in the yookay) therefore taking measures along with the internaitonal community to ban american football teams , athletes , sanction t hem , etc etc to be consistent with them as we are with russia ? why would we do that? |
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Post by Ripley on Sept 2, 2023 21:52:58 GMT
I'm not sure I recall many demos protesting recent US-led sabre-rattling efforts along the Russian border. In particular those that occured in the several years prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As I recall it all kicked off with Donald Rumsfeld's remarks about 'Old' and 'New' Europe, the former being particularly reluctant to join in on US-led neo-imperialist adventures in the Middle East, and the War on Turr in general. The UK being of course an honorary member of 'New' Europe along with the former members of the Warsaw Pact that the US fast-tracked for NATO membership. fully agree. What is new europe though , other than a collection of former powers now reduced to washington arse licking and vassal state status? While reading all the screams about ukrainian rights on trade and democracy free of interference , why arent the defenders of liberty barely mentioning (if at all ) the yookay being banned from fully brexiting on american say so , or germany being free to buy russian gas if need be?
The hungarian president said something about liberal in europe once meaning freedom , now meaning against freedoms. The same applies to the changing meaning of NATO. Once it was supposed to be a defensive alliance , now its merely a construct that furthers american foriegn policy.
Why dont we shut westminster and holyrood down , and start sending representatives to washington and be done with it?
Could you maybe flesh out that comment about the UK being banned from fully Brexiting on American say so? Not sure how the US can ban Brexit. |
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Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2023 21:53:23 GMT
Maybe Thomas thinks the USA has invaded Canada
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Post by Ripley on Sept 2, 2023 21:54:45 GMT
Maybe Thomas thinks the USA has invaded Canada As if... |
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Post by thomas on Sept 3, 2023 8:07:06 GMT
pacifico , im being accused by tincullin of not reading posts properly and yet you are doing the same with me. I havent said any of this , and in fact , i specifically made my point to tincullin about him only criticising the yanks when dragged kicking and screaming to do so. On your wider point , about how the world perceives american behaviour , i fully agree. Why arent we ( as in the yookay) therefore taking measures along with the internaitonal community to ban american football teams , athletes , sanction t hem , etc etc to be consistent with them as we are with russia ? why would we do that? for the same reason you are sanctioning russia , to be consistent. Or do these high morals that the ukraine virtue signallers go on about only apply to certain countries when it suits as i keep saying? like i said its fucking laughable.
You want to hold russia accountable to some imaginary moral standard you wont hold america accountable to for doing similar elsewhere.?
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I dont believe i have done so !
