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Post by zanygame on Sept 14, 2023 17:49:36 GMT
My point was that lorry driving was already well paid, it has risen by about 12% same as many other jobs. So why was there a need to bring in cheap labour. It wasn't cheap labour was it. It was labour for jobs our citizens didn't fancy. In any case its a tiny proportion compared to the number of people (7.25million) who work in the gig economy. When do they all get better paid jobs? And why the 38,000 shortfall in nursing. Well we have proven that not to be true by improving pay and conditions to attract more people into the job. Truck driver wages were being held artificially low by the ability of companies to use cheap East European labour. Once that avenue was closed then pay rose to the market rate and more British people wanted to do the job. There is a shortfall in nursing because we dont train enough - I accept the Government has increased training capacity to record levels but, as we are turning applicants away, perhaps its still not enough. I guess if you think 30k a year is low pay. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 17:53:15 GMT
Well we have proven that not to be true by improving pay and conditions to attract more people into the job. Truck driver wages were being held artificially low by the ability of companies to use cheap East European labour. Once that avenue was closed then pay rose to the market rate and more British people wanted to do the job. There is a shortfall in nursing because we dont train enough - I accept the Government has increased training capacity to record levels but, as we are turning applicants away, perhaps its still not enough. I guess if you think 30k a year is low pay. In a job where the market rate is £150k then one paying £100k is the definition of low pay.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 17:54:50 GMT
So you expect people on benefits to pay for classes and certificates out of benefit money?? That has to be one of the most audacious atempts at justifying bumlshit o have seen. Dont talk nonsense dear.. thank fuck for that - it would be as inept as the rest of your economic ideas. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 14, 2023 18:05:00 GMT
I guess if you think 30k a year is low pay. In a job where the market rate is £150k then one paying £100k is the definition of low pay.. But in this instance that was not what we were referring to as low pay was it. Or were Poles bought in to run Sainsbury's on the cheap. |
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 14, 2023 18:34:52 GMT
So you expect people on benefits to pay for classes and certificates out of benefit money?? That has to be one of the most audacious atempts at justifying bumlshit o have seen. Dont talk nonsense dear.. thank fuck for that - it would be as inept as the rest of your economic ideas. So you have nothing useful or intelligent to say. The idea of people on the dole or low pay being able to pay for further education belongs to bad fiction. And you bloody know it. So why did you suggest it? You wrote; "People retrain every day paid for by themsleves or by companies - you dont need the government to continually hold your hand." |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 21:24:03 GMT
In a job where the market rate is £150k then one paying £100k is the definition of low pay.. But in this instance that was not what we were referring to as low pay was it. Or were Poles bought in to run Sainsbury's on the cheap. OK - truck drivers pay has gone up from £30k to £50k by virtue of restricting cheap EU truck drivers entering the market. Care to explain why you think it is a bad thing that UK truck drivers can now earn £50k? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 21:26:00 GMT
Dont talk nonsense dear.. thank fuck for that - it would be as inept as the rest of your economic ideas. So you have nothing useful or intelligent to say. you dont read (or understand) replies so there isn't much point |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 6:38:37 GMT
But in this instance that was not what we were referring to as low pay was it. Or were Poles bought in to run Sainsbury's on the cheap. OK - truck drivers pay has gone up from £30k to £50k by virtue of restricting cheap EU truck drivers entering the market. Care to explain why you think it is a bad thing that UK truck drivers can now earn £50k? I have never said it was a bad thing. I pointed out it was unrepresentative of low paid jobs. In the UK low paid is Low pay is defined as the value that is two-thirds of median hourly earnings, that currently makes it £9.85 an hour. £17,927 pa. I followed it up with the question you keep dodging. As truck driving already paid 30k (Nearly double low pay) why was it necessary to raise it to 50k to get the poor in the UK to take the jobs. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 15, 2023 6:52:14 GMT
OK - truck drivers pay has gone up from £30k to £50k by virtue of restricting cheap EU truck drivers entering the market. Care to explain why you think it is a bad thing that UK truck drivers can now earn £50k? I have never said it was a bad thing. I pointed out it was unrepresentative of low paid jobs. In the UK low paid is Low pay is defined as the value that is two-thirds of median hourly earnings, that currently makes it £9.85 an hour. £17,927 pa. I followed it up with the question you keep dodging. As truck driving already paid 30k (Nearly double low pay) why was it necessary to raise it to 50k to get the poor in the UK to take the jobs. I already answered that - the pay and conditions that make a job attractive need to be at a level that make people think it worthwhile. £30k was obviously too low for the UK jobs market. You can get £30k a year labouring on a building site but the conditions and the hard work are not very attractive to a lot of people and they would rather be on lower pay but in an easier job. The other elephant in the room is the welfare system that makes people on very low pay not want more hours or higher wages as it takes them out of welfare and all the benefits that brings. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 7:04:12 GMT
I have never said it was a bad thing. I pointed out it was unrepresentative of low paid jobs. In the UK low paid is Low pay is defined as the value that is two-thirds of median hourly earnings, that currently makes it £9.85 an hour. £17,927 pa. I followed it up with the question you keep dodging. As truck driving already paid 30k (Nearly double low pay) why was it necessary to raise it to 50k to get the poor in the UK to take the jobs. That does not answer the question. Why was the 30k a year job appealing to low paid people in the EU but not to low paid people in the UK? There's the answer. Well done you got there. The money wasn't low pay at all. Its just that UK citizens would rather have low pay than hard work. This would appear to be the case. That or UK citizens have decided life style is better than money. Either way it was not EU citizens stealing jobs from UK citizens. Seems the UK citizens simply didn't want them. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 15, 2023 7:27:53 GMT
That does not answer the question. Why was the 30k a year job appealing to low paid people in the EU but not to low paid people in the UK? People in poorer countries move to richer countries for higher pay - this has always happened and always will. The British dont go and work in Saudi Arabia for the weather and lifestyle.. No - its the rate for the job. Make it worthwhile and people will do it. well we have already proven that wrong |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 7:38:37 GMT
That does not answer the question. Why was the 30k a year job appealing to low paid people in the EU but not to low paid people in the UK? But in this case people don't need to move to another country to get higher pay, do they. So that sentence has nothing to do with the topic. Yes obviously, but it was still not LOW pay. Stop wriggling. No we haven't. We've proven that 30k a year is not low pay but UK citizens can't be arsed to work for even that. Or perhaps low pay is 30k in England. |
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