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Post by Bentley on Sept 14, 2023 7:49:52 GMT
I’m pleased for you . Id rather stay out but if the majority want to re join so be it . Not for a decade or two though. It will probably not happen for another few years anyway even as the government recognise the change of public mood they will know the difficulties of joining are not needed at the moment. Yes, if it happens it will not be a matter of rejoining on the basis of falsely perceived past salad days . It will be a case of joining the EU because both the UK and EU believe it is advantageous to do so at that time . In other words the poor loser remainers who constantly whine will not be a factor .
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 8:35:12 GMT
Unlike France we have a shortage of workers and low unemployment - so we need people to change careers. Your answer does not address my question. If you lower unrm0loyment, you may get higher waged, though i doubty it. But if wzges do go up, durvto fewer emplouees, unemployment will go up in an environment of higher wzges and thus prices. So the unemployment levels will have to go up. Who is going to pay for that? Raise taxes? Then any rise in pay becomes pointless. If shortage of labour puts pay up, carers would be very well paid indeed. Pay depends on productivity but also skills level. If you can be replaced easily, you are xorth less. Pay is determined by many issues, not just supply and demand. Real life isnt that simple. If we have a shortage of labour then why would unemployment go up? - people retrain for other jobs every day, that is precisely what we want to happen. Pay is determined by supply and demand - it really is that simple. If you need X number of people with a specific skill set and there are very few people with that skill set then you will pay a high rate to get them. That is why Lionel Messi makes $50 Million a year.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 8:37:46 GMT
Unlike France we have a shortage of workers and low unemployment - so we need people to change careers. I agree, though I fear its a short term thing. Why didn't all those low paid workers in the gig economy become lorry drivers or nurses. That is a problem we need to fix! They did - that is why the lorry driver shortage is now pretty much solved. Transport companies had a shortage of drivers so increased pay and conditions which attracted more people into that line of employment. And Nurse training is oversubscribed - there is a very good argument that we need to increase training places.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 14, 2023 8:43:55 GMT
It will probably not happen for another few years anyway even as the government recognise the change of public mood they will know the difficulties of joining are not needed at the moment. Yes, if it happens it will not be a matter of rejoining on the basis of falsely perceived past salad days . It will be a case of joining the EU because both the UK and EU believe it is advantageous to do so at that time . In other words the poor loser remainers who constantly whine will not be a factor .It wasn't a sports day or a darts game.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 14, 2023 8:50:42 GMT
Yes, if it happens it will not be a matter of rejoining on the basis of falsely perceived past salad days . It will be a case of joining the EU because both the UK and EU believe it is advantageous to do so at that time . In other words the poor loser remainers who constantly whine will not be a factor .It wasn't a sports day or a darts game. You would think it was either from the constant whining of the losers .
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Post by zanygame on Sept 14, 2023 8:56:30 GMT
I agree, though I fear its a short term thing. Why didn't all those low paid workers in the gig economy become lorry drivers or nurses. That is a problem we need to fix! They did - that is why the lorry driver shortage is now pretty much solved. Transport companies had a shortage of drivers so increased pay and conditions which attracted more people into that line of employment. And Nurse training is oversubscribed - there is a very good argument that we need to increase training places. My point was that lorry driving was already well paid, it has risen by about 12% same as many other jobs. So why was there a need to bring in cheap labour. It wasn't cheap labour was it. It was labour for jobs our citizens didn't fancy. In any case its a tiny proportion compared to the number of people (7.25million) who work in the gig economy. When do they all get better paid jobs? And why the 38,000 shortfall in nursing.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 14, 2023 9:00:30 GMT
It wasn't a sports day or a darts game. You would think it was either from the constant whining of the losers . Yes the constant whining about the effects of Brexit after it happened. You wouldn't believe it. I look forward to the respectful acceptance from Tory supporters when Labour get elected And the stoic acceptance of democracy as the polls climb ever higher in favour of re-joining.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 14, 2023 9:31:45 GMT
You would think it was either from the constant whining of the losers . Yes the constant whining about the effects of Brexit after it happened. You wouldn't believe it. I look forward to the respectful acceptance from Tory supporters when Labour get elected And the stoic acceptance of democracy as the polls climb ever higher in favour of re-joining. Yes the constant whining that the UK has left the EU . Why do you look forward for Tory voters to do what ex remainers refused to do? Polls are not democracy. They are a snap shot of opinions from a restricted pool of people .
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Post by Montegriffo on Sept 14, 2023 9:36:11 GMT
No really you were making out they doing us a favour with half a story, well I never. I didn't know the open trade zone also included over half the third world either. Whatever. Let me know what I want for breakfast this morning will you. As you know what I think. Do you want to have your cake and eat it?
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 10:45:42 GMT
They did - that is why the lorry driver shortage is now pretty much solved. Transport companies had a shortage of drivers so increased pay and conditions which attracted more people into that line of employment. And Nurse training is oversubscribed - there is a very good argument that we need to increase training places. My point was that lorry driving was already well paid, it has risen by about 12% same as many other jobs. So why was there a need to bring in cheap labour. It wasn't cheap labour was it. It was labour for jobs our citizens didn't fancy. In any case its a tiny proportion compared to the number of people (7.25million) who work in the gig economy. When do they all get better paid jobs? And why the 38,000 shortfall in nursing. Well we have proven that not to be true by improving pay and conditions to attract more people into the job. Truck driver wages were being held artificially low by the ability of companies to use cheap East European labour. Once that avenue was closed then pay rose to the market rate and more British people wanted to do the job. There is a shortfall in nursing because we dont train enough - I accept the Government has increased training capacity to record levels but, as we are turning applicants away, perhaps its still not enough.
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 14, 2023 16:09:30 GMT
Your answer does not address my question. If you lower unrm0loyment, you may get higher waged, though i doubty it. But if wzges do go up, durvto fewer emplouees, unemployment will go up in an environment of higher wzges and thus prices. So the unemployment levels will have to go up. Who is going to pay for that? Raise taxes? Then any rise in pay becomes pointless. If shortage of labour puts pay up, carers would be very well paid indeed. Pay depends on productivity but also skills level. If you can be replaced easily, you are xorth less. Pay is determined by many issues, not just supply and demand. Real life isnt that simple. If we have a shortage of labour then why would unemployment go up? - people retrain for other jobs every day, that is precisely what we want to happen. Pay is determined by supply and demand - it really is that simple. If you need X number of people with a specific skill set and there are very few people with that skill set then you will pay a high rate to get them. That is why Lionel Messi makes $50 Million a year. No it isnt that simple. The lying brexit politicians want you to think so. If you have a shortage of labour, it means fewer people are working and need to be supported on benefits. Now where are all the retraining programmes necessary to improve their skill set? There arent any. So they stay on benefit. So you have fewer employees paying taxes to pay those benefits. So any increase in their wages will be taxed higher to pay for the increasingly unemployed. They end up with no more net income than before. Throw inflation into the pot and the pay balance is squeezed even more. If wages were merely simple supply and demand, carers would be paid far more since there arent enough of them. Why? Because the pay is crap. Pay rates are determined by what an employer can pay the workforce, plus their NI, and still make a profit. If there arent enough in the workforce, the employer cant pay the wages and the company either shrinks or goes bankrupt. Both militate against contributing to national growth. Companies need labour. That is why strikes work. And if the companies go under, the product has to be imported at a higher cost. Wages improve not when there are fewer workers but when employees gain skills and knowledge. As for the low paid, there is a legal limit to the lowest an employer can pay, unless they work on zero hours contracts or illegally. If someone needs to work three jobs to keep a family, the minimum wage is too low and there are too many part time jobs which pay min wage but the total per week is pitiful. Of course higher skills command higher wages but how does that apply to cutting broccoli or cleaning toilets? Someone has to do it and if Brits dont want to, and frankly who would, then someone else has to. And where does one go to improve their other skills? It costs money if they are anywhere. Unless you are going to do what the nazis and communists did and force people to do the work, and carve large statues to young men and women toiling for the fatherland, singing songs and always happy, you will either pay low wages or force up prices which anulls the pay rise. It really isnt as simple as it was sold to you. It was one more Big Lie.
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 14, 2023 16:21:50 GMT
As for rejoining, it looks to me as if one by one, common issues and useful alliances between the UK and the EU will happen, so that eventually you will be paying the EU a la carte.The UK will have to respect EU law if it wants to trade and the result will be BRINO. Pity about losing out on the grants and low cost loans but you voted for it...
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 14, 2023 16:52:16 GMT
If we have a shortage of labour then why would unemployment go up? - people retrain for other jobs every day, that is precisely what we want to happen. Pay is determined by supply and demand - it really is that simple. If you need X number of people with a specific skill set and there are very few people with that skill set then you will pay a high rate to get them. That is why Lionel Messi makes $50 Million a year. No it isnt that simple. The lying brexit politicians want you to think so. If you have a shortage of labour, it means fewer people are working and need to be supported on benefits. Now where are all the retraining programmes necessary to improve their skill set? There arent any. So they stay on benefit. People retrain every day paid for by themsleves or by companies - you dont need the government to continually hold your hand. Due to the shortage of workers we have more people in employment than ever before... The reality is that the vast majority of cases, the only people who are unemployed at the moment are those that do not want to work. Nope - it, like everything else in the economy, is simple supply and demand. If someone wants to buy your labour they have to meet the market price which is set by demand for labour.
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Post by oracle75 on Sept 14, 2023 16:59:15 GMT
So you expect people on benefits to pay for classes and certificates out of benefit money?? That has to be one of the most audacious atempts at justifying bumlshit o have seen.
The rest just means what i wrote has gone right over your head. I am not here to write you a chapter in economics. I already explained the complexities in the labour market. Your graph is a child's first view of simplistic economics and is not representative of the labour market. I am not going to do it again.
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Post by sheepy on Sept 14, 2023 17:02:04 GMT
You would think it was either from the constant whining of the losers . Yes the constant whining about the effects of Brexit after it happened. You wouldn't believe it. I look forward to the respectful acceptance from Tory supporters when Labour get elected And the stoic acceptance of democracy as the polls climb ever higher in favour of re-joining. Unless of course people wise up and see right through your lies on behalf of no one but yourself.
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