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Post by zanygame on Aug 28, 2023 19:41:14 GMT
I thought Pacifico made some interesting comments.
This thread is not just about PPE or long Covid, but the changes it has created in our society and its economics.
As Pacifico says:
Well the negative consequences of paying people to sit at home doing nothing are becoming more apparent by the day. So whether you can count that episode as a success is moot.
Your thoughts everyone?
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Post by Bentley on Aug 28, 2023 21:13:28 GMT
No one knows how many people died and / or suffered long term because of the closed clinics and operation theatres .
The government knows how much the public will tolerate being told what to do though and they will use this in the future , no doubt .
The threat of a new covid will be exploited by future governments .
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 28, 2023 21:17:26 GMT
The best thing thzt can be learned is that if a killer disease is tracking its way across Asia and coming towards you, it might be a good idea to check the hospital cupboards to see what is in them.
And take it seriously.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 28, 2023 21:27:47 GMT
We have an aging society with an explosion of illnesses like Dementia that are a massive drain on the economy (to the detriment of the young) and society as a whole.
Suddenly we had an illness that was dangerous to only the the old and weak, and we chose a path that destroyed the futures of hundreds of thousands of young people.
Feel proud of yourselves people.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 28, 2023 21:30:41 GMT
The best thing thzt can be learned is that if a killer disease is tracking its way across Asia and coming towards you, it might be a good idea to check the hospital cupboards to see what is in them. And take it seriously. So what apart from new PPE should there be in the cupboards ? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 28, 2023 21:45:17 GMT
How clever!
You win the prize for spotting the reference first!
Just effective PPE would be fine.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 28, 2023 21:50:05 GMT
How clever! You win the prize for spotting the reference first! Just effective PPE would be fine. I spotted the poor attempt at being cryptic . |
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Post by dodgydave on Aug 28, 2023 23:33:05 GMT
I don't really see the point of looking back.
The government were backed into a corner by the media, opposition parties and the majority of the public.
We demanded lockdowns we got them. We demanded furlough and business support... we got it. We demanded testing and vaccines... we got them.
If the government had stockpiled PPE during swine-flu, bird-flu and the gazillion other potential pandemics that never took off we would have critisised them for wasting money. Once COVID hit pandemic status the world rush for PPE led to shortages... its just one of those things.
Even if we had "stayed open", the rest of the world didn't, the same inflation spike and energy shortages would have happened.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 29, 2023 6:17:23 GMT
Lesson number 1 is don't necessarily believe experts - even if they're "scientists". The reason for the lockdowns was that Neil Ferguson's computer model made dire predictions of vast numbers of deaths if we didn't lock down. But the model was wrong - as it had been in previous cases - and the calls to "follow the science" made on the govt meant that they did the wrong thing.
I pointed out at the beginning of the outbreak that the costs of lockdown (purely financial) would completely blow the NICE guidelines out of the water. These guidelines specify the maximum that can be paid to extend the life of a person by 1 year, and it's about £15,000. But the costs of lockdown were vastly greater than this in furlough alone - and the knock on costs of the damage done by lockdowns were far greater as well. That should have been a warning sign that they had got it wrong.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 29, 2023 6:28:19 GMT
Pointless discussion about PPE as a: we never ran out and b: much if it was useless against covid anyway.
Facemasks were simply a comfort blanket for those who thought that 'something should be done'
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Post by Montegriffo on Aug 29, 2023 7:07:11 GMT
I think the biggest lesson learnt from COVID is that if the next pandemic is a real killer we are screwed. Our government will act too slowly and the population will break the rules.
At its worst we were losing 1,000+ people a day and yet some were breaking the rules just for a haircut.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 29, 2023 12:11:51 GMT
I think the biggest lesson learnt from COVID is that if the next pandemic is a real killer we are screwed. Our government will act too slowly and the population will break the rules. At its worst we were losing 1,000+ people a day and yet some were breaking the rules just for a haircut. It actually depends on how long the virus takes to kill people, how transmissible it is and whether it's transmissible before symptoms show. Covid is highly transmissible and is infectious before symptoms show and these are the reasons why it was vey dangerous - far more so than SARS for example. And the reason it was so transmissible is because it had been manipulated in a laboratory to be more transmissible, whereas SARS had evolved by transitioning through an animal host. But Covid wasn't that deadly - about 0.1% and mainly the elderly. However very deadly viruses like ebola, for example, don't tend to kill many people for the simple reason that people die before they have the chance to infect other people. It's a very complicated picture - and the reason why Covid had such a devastating impact was because none of the computer models worked. And the statement that the govt acted too slowly is NOT the lesson to learn. Those govts that acted very quickly (e.g. New Zealand and Australia) and shut down their borders got it wrong, because they're now in a situation where they have to open their borders and the population has little immunity. They were gambling on the virus burning itself out or a vaccine being developed. Neither have happened. Covid carries on evolving and being a nuisance and none of the vaccines are much use except for lowering the severity of the disease And, as for people breaking the rules, the rules were fucking nonsense and deserved to be broken. The amazing thing is that so many people actually took any notice of them - and that the govt even bothered to enact them. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Aug 29, 2023 15:04:48 GMT
QED
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Post by jonksy on Aug 29, 2023 15:32:59 GMT
I think the biggest lesson learnt from COVID is that if the next pandemic is a real killer we are screwed. Our government will act too slowly and the population will break the rules. At its worst we were losing 1,000+ people a day and yet some were breaking the rules just for a haircut. So just a normal day then. The average mortality rate of the UK averages 1000 per day with or whithout a epidemic. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 29, 2023 19:18:16 GMT
I think the biggest lesson learnt from COVID is that if the next pandemic is a real killer we are screwed. Our government will act too slowly and the population will break the rules. At its worst we were losing 1,000+ people a day and yet some were breaking the rules just for a haircut. So just a normal day then. The average mortality rate of the UK averages 1000 per day with or whithout a epidemic. A 1,000 a day on top of the usual and from a single cause. So not quite a normal day. |
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