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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2023 7:20:32 GMT
If the case is so good, they should run for election. I see no good argument for special positions for crackpots justified by 'forty years of research' You dont see any value in 40 years of research but suppport 800 appointed people who can actually affect legislation and who are paid for signing in and going home? You have a very odd idea of valuable contribution. Why against the house of lords? there is almost certainly a total of more than '40 years of research' in the house of lords. I thought your idea is that you did your 'forty years' and were whisked to your seat advising government without the electorate having a say? |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 8, 2023 8:00:25 GMT
Morning Bubbles. You dont rhink blacklisting opposition opinion in meetings is contrary to restricting freedom of speech? I call it Putinesque. No. Not at all. But then again, I wouldn't have the audacity to trespass on someone's private property and then expect them to have me round for dinner a few days later. You are embarrassing yourself with petulancy towards a country you no longer live in. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 9:10:46 GMT
Au contraire.
The three security forces should be sacked.
If you seriously think active protest should be done by please and thank you, grow up.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 9:14:54 GMT
You dont see any value in 40 years of research but suppport 800 appointed people who can actually affect legislation and who are paid for signing in and going home? You have a very odd idea of valuable contribution. Why against the house of lords? there is almost certainly a total of more than '40 years of research' in the house of lords. I thought your idea is that you did your 'forty years' and were whisked to your seat advising government without the electorate having a say? Greenpeace have been one of the groups every government has had at its disposal for a long time. This government only likes to entertain the advice of echoes. [br The HoL was brought up as the way the UK government makes its decisions usibg what is portrayzd as a valuable source of advice...by unelected people who pay their way in. There arent many in there with 40 years of focussed research. However it remains THE example of the screwed up idea of democracy the UK tries to boast about. However that is another subject. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2023 9:18:02 GMT
Why against the house of lords? there is almost certainly a total of more than '40 years of research' in the house of lords. I thought your idea is that you did your 'forty years' and were whisked to your seat advising government without the electorate having a say? Greenpeace have been one of the groups every government has had at its disposal for a long time. This government only likes to entertain the advice of echoes. Things change. Certainly there is no good democratic argument that they should be immovably attached to government - ie that the government must consult them any more than it must consult anyone else. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 9:25:09 GMT
Indeed. That is not the issue.
The government has said it wont listen to them AT ALL.
Not my idea of respecting freedom of speech, opinion, point of view or representatives of those who have been shouting about the deterioration of the environment for two generations.
The Tory's Dont Look Up moment.
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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2023 9:29:39 GMT
Indeed. That is not the issue. The government has said it wont listen to them AT ALL. Not my idea of respecting freedom of speech, opinion, point of view or representatives of those who have been shouting about the deterioration of the environment for two generations. The Tory's Dont Look Up moment. Not really a freedom of speech issue. The government don't listen to me, but I don't claim my rights to speak are removed as a result. The government have no responsibility to respect your opinions |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 9:39:25 GMT
Greenpeace havent claimed they have been blacklisted.
The government announced they had been blacklisted.If the government says they wont be paying attention to anyone who disagrees with them, you SHOULD be strongly objecting on the basis of your freedom of speech and in defense of democratic principles.
Mind you, Trump has taken this to great heights by sacking anyone who, even when they had 40 years of expertise, challenges what Trump wants.
Is that what you approve of and want to see more of in the UK?
The logical conclusion to that if you lose an election, you have no voice until the next one.
You approve of that??
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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2023 9:49:06 GMT
Greenpeace havent claimed they have been blacklisted. The government announced they had been blacklisted.If the government says they wont be paying attention to anyone who disagrees with them, you SHOULD be strongly objecting on the basis of your freedom of speech and in defense of democratic principles. Mind you, Trump has taken this to great heights by sacking anyone who, even when they had 40 years of expertise, challenges what Trump wants. The government hasn't said they will only pay attention to people who agree with them. There is no democratic principle that stipulates that Green Peace need to be consulted by the government. As Obama once said, elections have consequences and one of the obvious consequences is that different administration listen to different people. You seem to feel this is fine in one direction but not if your views are sidelined |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 8, 2023 10:38:08 GMT
Au contraire. The three security forces should be sacked. If you seriously think active protest should be done by please and thank you, grow up. You're the one who believes it's acceptable to break the law. Then, not only that have those same law breakers who breached the private and personal residence of the PM inside government meetings a few days later. You laughably call this killing of free speech which it clearly is not. You clearly have no idea what freedom of speech actually means. I think it's you who needs to do some growing up before researching what freedom of speech is. Perhaps the French translation may help you better. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 12:10:37 GMT
Repeating ypurself in different words is not a discussion.
It is, however, rinse and repeat.
You need to sharpen your communication skills. Or stand back, close your mouth and watch how other people do it.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 12:14:22 GMT
Greenpeace havent claimed they have been blacklisted. The government announced they had been blacklisted.If the government says they wont be paying attention to anyone who disagrees with them, you SHOULD be strongly objecting on the basis of your freedom of speech and in defense of democratic principles. Mind you, Trump has taken this to great heights by sacking anyone who, even when they had 40 years of expertise, challenges what Trump wants. The government hasn't said they will only pay attention to people who agree with them. There is no democratic principle that stipulates that Green Peace need to be consulted by the government. As Obama once said, elections have consequences and one of the obvious consequences is that different administration listen to different people. You seem to feel this is fine in one direction but not if your views are sidelined OK. Ignore specialists experts and tell the gullible population that your decisions are based on investigation, knowledge, debate and the latest information. It worked for other stupid decisions the Tories have taken. Why change the pattern now? |
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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2023 12:59:42 GMT
The government hasn't said they will only pay attention to people who agree with them. There is no democratic principle that stipulates that Green Peace need to be consulted by the government. As Obama once said, elections have consequences and one of the obvious consequences is that different administration listen to different people. You seem to feel this is fine in one direction but not if your views are sidelined OK. Ignore specialists experts and tell the gullible population that your decisions are based on investigation, knowledge, debate and the latest information. It worked for other stupid decisions the Tories have taken. Why change the pattern now? Your whole position seems to assume we agree that Green Peace should have a special relationship with government, or that such a relationship is a necessary to democracy, or that Green peace has any credibility. This a political opinion you hold that I don't - these sort of disagreements is what democracy is all about and what it is designed to solve. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 8, 2023 13:11:39 GMT
Repeating ypurself in different words is not a discussion. It is, however, rinse and repeat. You need to sharpen your communication skills. Or stand back, close your mouth and watch how other people do it. Outstanding, lol. Lets all stand back and watch how Oracle does it, actually I recommend people sit down, where's me popcorn this is going to be good... ...you may begin  |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 8, 2023 13:11:46 GMT
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
I never said "special relationship"
It now has NO relationship.
I have made myself clear and explained it.
Unlike some i hate to repeat elements of a discussion and pretend i am having a useful conversation.
I have made my position clear.
I am now bored.
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