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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 7, 2023 10:36:44 GMT
No. No idea where you got that from. I think you just made that up. No, it's fact, unlike your wishful thinking that all illegal migrants automatically become asylum seekers. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 10:44:12 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics.
Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not
Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home).
The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants.
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Post by jonksy on Aug 7, 2023 10:56:44 GMT
No. No idea where you got that from. I think you just made that up. Made what up? |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 7, 2023 10:58:06 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics. Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home). The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants. The clue is in the title of illegal immigrants. Not rocket science is it? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2023 10:59:38 GMT
An Asylum Seeker or Asylum Applicant is not a criminal, and by law, by definition and by international agreement, they are not illegal immigrants. This is not open to debate, it is an established fact.
I fully accept that at least some Asylum Applicants are not genuine, and I would say that most, or possibly all applicants from Albania are not genuine.
My point is that regardless of who they are, or where they are from, or what their status is, they are first and foremost Human Beings, and as such should be afforded NOT LUXURY, but basic human acceptable standards, including a place of relative safety.
The accommodation which British servicemen had to endure in the South Atlantic in the 1980s is totally irrelevant, and has no bearing on the matter what so ever.
If the Fire Service say that the barge is a serious fire hazzard and a potential death trap, then its clearly wrong to risk human life, whether it be Asylum Applicants or Firemen and other emergency service people.
UNder the Fire Regulations, that barge would not be allowed to house prisoners, so why are Asylum Seekers lives classed by this government as "not that important". ?
I do not propose housing Asylum Applicants in 4* Hotels, but at the same time they must be afforded a certain level of safety and dignity.
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:00:13 GMT
I do wonder if the mods already regret not banning you for longer than they did Jonksy.
No idea what point you are trying to make.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:01:47 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics. Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home). The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants. Pillock. Asylum seekers do not pay people smugglers to get them from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B', but criminals do. Because we have a weak centrist government who are afraid to enact international law because it would upset the EU they choose to call criminals, asylum seekers. It's an absolute sham and will do little other than push people who are sick of being ignored to the right. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 7, 2023 11:02:29 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics. Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home). The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants. The clue is in the title of illegal immigrants. Not rocket science is it? Exactly, that is their official title 'illegal migrants', the government use it, the media use it, and we use it, if they weren't illegal migrants we'd call them 'Asylum seekers'. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:03:53 GMT
An Asylum Seeker or Asylum Applicant is not a criminal, and by law, by definition and by international agreement, they are not illegal immigrants. This is not open to debate, it is an established fact. I fully accept that at least some Asylum Applicants are not genuine, and I would say that most, or possibly all applicants from Albania are not genuine. My point is that regardless of who they are, or where they are from, or what their status is, they are first and foremost Human Beings, and as such should be afforded NOT LUXURY, but basic human acceptable standards, including a place of relative safety. The accommodation which British servicemen had to endure in the South Atlantic in the 1980s is totally irrelevant, and has no bearing on the matter what so ever. If the Fire Service say that the barge is a serious fire hazzard and a potential death trap, then its clearly wrong to risk human life, whether it be Asylum Applicants or Firemen and other emergency service people. UNder the Fire Regulations, that barge would not be allowed to house prisoners, so why are Asylum Seekers lives classed by this government as "not that important". ? I do not propose housing Asylum Applicants in 4* Hotels, but at the same time they must be afforded a certain level of safety and dignity. He is if he paid a criminal to get him from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B'. Christ what is it with lefties? |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:06:53 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics. Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home). The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants. Pillock. Asylum seekers do not pay people smugglers to get them from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B', but criminals do. Because we have a weak centrist government who are afraid to enact international law because it would upset the EU they choose to call criminals, asylum seekers. It's an absolute sham and will do little other than push people who are sick of being ignored to the right. As I was saying , it is remarkable given the volume of posts on Asylum just how many people fail to grasp the essential facts of how asylum works. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 7, 2023 11:07:37 GMT
"An Asylum Seeker or Asylum Applicant is not a criminal, and by law, by definition and by international agreement, they are not illegal immigrants. "
Whose definition and which international agreement?
The term 'asylum seeker' does not appear in the Refugee Convention.
An asylum 'applicant' is technically illegal under the immigration legislation until such time as an Immigration Officer registers his claim, at which point he becomes and is counted as an asylum seeker.
I suspect that IOs could be being quietly instructed to register claims for all small-boat arrivals, even those who don't want to make one, since there is otherwise no current effective process for dealing with them.
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 7, 2023 11:07:40 GMT
Not once has the government or the media, or most us called the Bibby Stockholm for Asylum Seekers, we call it exactly what it is, illegal migrant accommodation.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:09:15 GMT
Pillock. Asylum seekers do not pay people smugglers to get them from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B', but criminals do. Because we have a weak centrist government who are afraid to enact international law because it would upset the EU they choose to call criminals, asylum seekers. It's an absolute sham and will do little other than push people who are sick of being ignored to the right. As I was saying , it is remarkable given the volume of posts on Asylum just how many people fail to grasp the essential facts of how asylum works. It's glaringly obvious. You pay a criminal to get you from one safe country to another safe country. Where have you been? |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 7, 2023 11:09:16 GMT
Its remarkable given the volume of posts on the subject how many people don't appear to understand the basics. Handyman the clue is in the name - "asylum seeker" - they seek asylum. You can't be an alleged asylum seeker - while you are seeking that asylum you are an asylum seeker. Once a decision is made then you become either a refugee or a failed asylum seeker. (That status can then change again if an appeal is launched). At no point can you be an alleged asylum seeker - you either factually are or you factually are not Asylum has to be claimed here but can be claimed either immediately on arriving unconventionally (eg on arriving by small boat or in back of lorry), after arriving by normal means (eg at heathrow arriving on a visa or at end of a visa period) or even after some time here (eg a sex worker trafficked here escaping from a gang and not safe to return home). The vast majority of people arriving by small boat claim asylum - if not seeking asylum the risk of detection is too high for most to travel here by this method - but nonetheless some do and they are illegal immigrants. If they arrive here illegally they are always illegal immigrants, they may also be asylum seekers. Our agreements as regards conventions means that no sanction against an individual shall be made on the basis of his illegal arrival if he claims asylum. That does not remove his description as an illegal immigrant nor does it provide a right to wander the world looking for asylum and passing into and through countries illegally. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:10:09 GMT
"An Asylum Seeker or Asylum Applicant is not a criminal, and by law, by definition and by international agreement, they are not illegal immigrants. " Whose definition and which international agreement? The term 'asylum seeker' does not appear in the Refugee Convention. An asylum 'applicant' is technically illegal under the immigration legislation until such time as an Immigration Officer registers his claim, at which point he becomes and is counted as an asylum seeker. I suspect that IOs could be being quietly instructed to register claims for all small-boat arrivals, even those who don't want to make one, since there is otherwise no current effective process for dealing with them. They are criminals if they broke the law to get to the country they are claiming asylum in. |
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