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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:14:14 GMT
1) You would accept though Sandy that there is no such thing as an alleged asylum seeker?
2) You would also accept that while his/her claim for asylum is being assessed, he/she has the right to be in this country?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2023 11:16:19 GMT
The law states that an Asylum Seeker can claim Asylum in a country of their choosing, there is no rule that an Asylum Seeker must claim in the first safe state they come to.
If an Asylum Seeker pays a criminal to get them to where they want to be, it may very well be a crime committed by the Asylum Seeker, but it does not render the Asylum Seekers application void.
How would you think Italy would react to the British government if the British government ignored the UN Convention on Refugees and decided that all UK asylum applicants should go back to Italy, probably the first safe country they arrived in.
Or if the UK government insisted that Asylum Applicants should all go back to France ?
I know what would happen - suddenly there would be chaos at the Channel Tunnel and Ferry Ports, and British goods and holliday makers would start queuing up, as the French retaliate.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:20:23 GMT
The law states that an Asylum Seeker can claim Asylum in a country of their choosing, there is no rule that an Asylum Seeker must claim in the first safe state they come to. If an Asylum Seeker pays a criminal to get them to where they want to be, it may very well be a crime committed by the Asylum Seeker, but it does not render the Asylum Seekers application void. How would you think Italy would react to the British government if the British government ignored the UN Convention on Refugees and decided that all UK asylum applicants should go back to Italy, probably the first safe country they arrived in. Or if the UK government insisted that Asylum Applicants should all go back to France ? I know what would happen - suddenly there would be chaos at the Channel Tunnel and Ferry Ports, and British goods and holliday makers would start queuing up, as the French retaliate. Would you be good enough to point out which law it is that enables people to pay criminals to get them from one safe country to another safe country in order to pretend to be Refugees/asylum seekers... |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:22:10 GMT
As far as I know it is not a crime to pay a people smuggler.
It is a crime to be a people smuggler.
Entering a country illegally (whether to claim asylum or to work here illegally) is technically against the law as is speeding or parking on a yellow line but few would call such people "criminals".
(For absence of doubt those people here working illegally should be removed when apprehended)
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 7, 2023 11:23:46 GMT
The law states that an Asylum Seeker can claim Asylum in a country of their choosing, there is no rule that an Asylum Seeker must claim in the first safe state they come to.If an Asylum Seeker pays a criminal to get them to where they want to be, it may very well be a crime committed by the Asylum Seeker, but it does not render the Asylum Seekers application void. How would you think Italy would react to the British government if the British government ignored the UN Convention on Refugees and decided that all UK asylum applicants should go back to Italy, probably the first safe country they arrived in. Or if the UK government insisted that Asylum Applicants should all go back to France ? I know what would happen - suddenly there would be chaos at the Channel Tunnel and Ferry Ports, and British goods and holliday makers would start queuing up, as the French retaliate. HELLO!!!
They are coming from FRANCE, what war is raging in France?
Is Macron persecuting them, is their lives in danger ......... NO
To claim asylum, an asylum seeker must prove that they are unable to live safely in any area of their home or country of origin, due to a well-founded fear of persecution. The persecution must be as a result of: Your race/ ethnicity. Your religious beliefs
**That is NOT happening to them in France ^^
So they are illegal migrants with no valid legitimacy to claim Asylum in the UK ..... END OF
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:24:49 GMT
As far as I know it is not a crime to pay a people smuggler. It is a crime to be a people smuggler. Entering a country illegally (whether to claim asylum or to work here illegally) is technically against the law as is speeding or parking on a yellow line but few would call such people "criminals". (For absence of doubt those people here working illegally should be removed when apprehended) You claim it is not a crime to pay for the services of a criminal! Priceless. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 7, 2023 11:25:00 GMT
An Asylum Seeker or Asylum Applicant is not a criminal, and by law, by definition and by international agreement, they are not illegal immigrants. This is not open to debate, it is an established fact. I fully accept that at least some Asylum Applicants are not genuine, and I would say that most, or possibly all applicants from Albania are not genuine. My point is that regardless of who they are, or where they are from, or what their status is, they are first and foremost Human Beings, and as such should be afforded NOT LUXURY, but basic human acceptable standards, including a place of relative safety. The accommodation which British servicemen had to endure in the South Atlantic in the 1980s is totally irrelevant, and has no bearing on the matter what so ever. If the Fire Service say that the barge is a serious fire hazzard and a potential death trap, then its clearly wrong to risk human life, whether it be Asylum Applicants or Firemen and other emergency service people. UNder the Fire Regulations, that barge would not be allowed to house prisoners, so why are Asylum Seekers lives classed by this government as "not that important". ? I do not propose housing Asylum Applicants in 4* Hotels, but at the same time they must be afforded a certain level of safety and dignity. He is if he paid a criminal to get him from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B'. Christ what is it with lefties? They have no fucking brains mate. Just virtual sigals. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:28:17 GMT
As far as I know it is not a crime to pay a people smuggler. It is a crime to be a people smuggler. Entering a country illegally (whether to claim asylum or to work here illegally) is technically against the law as is speeding or parking on a yellow line but few would call such people "criminals". (For absence of doubt those people here working illegally should be removed when apprehended) You claim it is not a crime to pay for the services of a criminal! Priceless. What is the statute in UK law that makes illegal someone currently overseas paying a people smuggler to get him across the channel. As far as I know it doesn't exist but willing to be proven wrong. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 7, 2023 11:29:02 GMT
Entering the UK without permission is an offence under section 24 of the 1971 Immigration Act:
24.— Illegal entry and similar offences.
...
(B1) A person who—
(a) requires leave to enter the United Kingdom under this Act, and
(b) knowingly enters the United Kingdom without such leave,
commits an offence.
(F1) A person who commits an offence under any of subsections (A1) to (E1) is liable—
(a) on summary conviction in England and Wales, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the general limit in a magistrates’ court or a fine (or both);
(b) on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both);
(c) on summary conviction in Northern Ireland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both);
(d) on conviction on indictment—
(i) for an offence under subsection (A1), to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine (or both);
(ii) for an offence under any of subsections (B1) to (E1), to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years or a fine (or both).
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 7, 2023 11:30:05 GMT
You claim it is not a crime to pay for the services of a criminal! Priceless. What is the statute in UK law that makes illegal someone currently overseas paying a people smuggler to get him across the channel. As far as I know it doesn't exist but willing to be proven wrong. And if it is a crime it isn't taking place in the UK, so we wouldn't have any jurisdiction. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:30:47 GMT
The law states that an Asylum Seeker can claim Asylum in a country of their choosing, there is no rule that an Asylum Seeker must claim in the first safe state they come to.If an Asylum Seeker pays a criminal to get them to where they want to be, it may very well be a crime committed by the Asylum Seeker, but it does not render the Asylum Seekers application void. How would you think Italy would react to the British government if the British government ignored the UN Convention on Refugees and decided that all UK asylum applicants should go back to Italy, probably the first safe country they arrived in. Or if the UK government insisted that Asylum Applicants should all go back to France ? I know what would happen - suddenly there would be chaos at the Channel Tunnel and Ferry Ports, and British goods and holliday makers would start queuing up, as the French retaliate. HELLO!!!
They are coming from FRANCE, what war is raging in France?
Is Macron persecuting them, is their lives in danger ......... NO
To claim asylum, an asylum seeker must prove that they are unable to live safely in any area of their home or country of origin, due to a well-founded fear of persecution. The persecution must be as a result of: Your race/ ethnicity. Your religious beliefs
**That is NOT happening to them in France ^^
So they are illegal migrants with no valid legitimacy to claim Asylum in the UK ..... END OF
Do you read the links in your own post. Read again the bit in bold. Then tell me how it a) applies to a Syrian Kurd who has travelled through France to claim asylum in the UK. b0 to a French National travelling from Paris to UK to claim asylum. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 7, 2023 11:32:00 GMT
What is the statute in UK law that makes illegal someone currently overseas paying a people smuggler to get him across the channel. As far as I know it doesn't exist but willing to be proven wrong. And if it is a crime it isn't taking place in the UK, so we wouldn't have any jurisdiction. They are entering the UK illegally FFS. Aided and abeted ny the EUSSR. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 7, 2023 11:33:21 GMT
You claim it is not a crime to pay for the services of a criminal! Priceless. What is the statute in UK law that makes illegal someone currently overseas paying a people smuggler to get him across the channel. As far as I know it doesn't exist but willing to be proven wrong. That doesn't make a lot of sense. In your attempt to look clever you're getting tongue tied. Dappy, if you seriously believe it's perfectly legal to pay for the services of a criminal, then you're an even bigger pillock than even I suspected. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:34:16 GMT
Entering the UK without permission is an offence under section 24 of the 1971 Immigration Act: 24.— Illegal entry and similar offences. ... (B1) A person who— (a) requires leave to enter the United Kingdom under this Act, and (b) knowingly enters the United Kingdom without such leave, commits an offence. (F1) A person who commits an offence under any of subsections (A1) to (E1) is liable— (a) on summary conviction in England and Wales, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the general limit in a magistrates’ court or a fine (or both); (b) on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both); (c) on summary conviction in Northern Ireland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both); (d) on conviction on indictment— (i) for an offence under subsection (A1), to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine (or both); (ii) for an offence under any of subsections (B1) to (E1), to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years or a fine (or both). Not sure what point you are answering Dan. Red seems to be arguing that paying a people smuggler to arrive here is a separate crime to just travelling here in a dinghy you bought in a French supermarket. Not convinced it is. I agree that arriving by unconventional means is technically against the law - a bit like speeding. Neither would normally be described as a criminal. Unlike speeding it is accepted that those here to claim asylum have no other choice and hence do not get penalised. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 7, 2023 11:38:20 GMT
What is the statute in UK law that makes illegal someone currently overseas paying a people smuggler to get him across the channel. As far as I know it doesn't exist but willing to be proven wrong. That doesn't make a lot of sense. In your attempt to look clever you're getting tongue tied. Dappy, if you seriously believe it's perfectly legal to pay for the services of a criminal, then you're an even bigger pillock than even I suspected. So tell me the statute that says paying a people smuggler in France to get you to the UK is illegal. You might be right. To be clear I accept that entering the UK without a visa is technically against the law but as far as I know it matters not whether you have paid a people smuggler to do it or travelled here say under a lorry. |
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