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Post by sandypine on Aug 11, 2023 14:37:52 GMT
There have always been a few people calling for our extradition from the convention but it appears to be now and because of immigration that the call is being intensified. At the end of WW2 there were millions of displaced people and the ECHR went someway to protecting their rights. Today there are millions of displaced people due to wars, drought, famine and prejudices, why is now different?In fact it would appear to be just as relevant today as it was then. Because at the end of WW2 the world population was just over 2 Billion and in 2023 it’s over 8 Billion and so I’ll ask the question no one wants to answer,if due to a combination of poverty,war and climate I expect the displaced will be a tidal wave compared to the ripple of post WW2. So do we open our doors to all comers. It seems the left in general have an inability or unwillingness to consider the effects of numbers on the UK population. It has been like that to my recall since a pleasant April day in Birmingham in 1968. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2023 15:14:40 GMT
Because at the end of WW2 the world population was just over 2 Billion and in 2023 it’s over 8 Billion and so I’ll ask the question no one wants to answer,if due to a combination of poverty,war and climate I expect the displaced will be a tidal wave compared to the ripple of post WW2. So do we open our doors to all comers. It seems the left in general have an inability or unwillingness to consider the effects of numbers on the UK population. It has been like that to my recall since a pleasant April day in Birmingham in 1968. That is a different topic. Only 100,000 have made the trip across the channel in 5 years that's approx. 20,000 a year which is a very small number compared to the numbers 'allowed' in by 'legal' routes. That number does not represent the net number which is obviously lower. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 11, 2023 15:58:01 GMT
Andrew - it's all about legal loopholes and exploitation of a system designed in a bygone era. That alone highlights the unethical forces at work, which, as we can see, is also used against the people of our country. Clearly there's no reasoning with the Labour Left, which makes the situation a lot worse. You may think that, I think it's more about global migration. The problem with some of the posters on here is that they think it's a UK issue here, someone even said that we were a laughing stock because of our failure to deal with migrants, which just shows the ignorance of what is actually happening. I don't have an issue with the barge as such, as long as it meets safety standards and it is only used short term. I'm not a Labour supporter, and although every debate on here just descends into left v right, it's actually not a helpful way of looking at things. People are more 3 dimensional than just one or t'other, but most of the threads on here are just about putting people in boxes and then calling them names, rather than debating the actual points. On your point about bygone era, I somewhat take the point and have no objection to the legislation being amended, as long as we remain within our international obligations. It's not clear for me across all these multiple threads what changes people actually want to see that would actually make the process easier. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 11, 2023 16:07:45 GMT
It seems the left in general have an inability or unwillingness to consider the effects of numbers on the UK population. It has been like that to my recall since a pleasant April day in Birmingham in 1968. That is a different topic. No it isn’t and you don’t want to answer. None who are in favour of the status quo are willing to answer a very simple and pertinent question. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 11, 2023 16:13:42 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Aug 11, 2023 18:11:49 GMT
It seems the left in general have an inability or unwillingness to consider the effects of numbers on the UK population. It has been like that to my recall since a pleasant April day in Birmingham in 1968. That is a different topic. Only 100,000 have made the trip across the channel in 5 years that's approx. 20,000 a year which is a very small number compared to the numbers 'allowed' in by 'legal' routes. That number does not represent the net number which is obviously lower. In terms of the demographic they represent (mainly young men) and the locations they are going to then they will cause a social imbalance even if they are granted refugee status and go to live within the communities they choose. With no solution on any horizon then the numbers will only keep rising and the demographic is unlikely to change. With no solution to the wars and starvation they are apparently fleeing from it is clear that there is a sustainability issue for cost and cultural and social consequences that the left just will not consider. So at least recognise that there is a potential problem we are currently storing up for the future and now is the time to deal with it not 1,2 or even 5 years time. Most of us have reached and passed our acceptable limits, is there a limit in your, and others, view? |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 11, 2023 20:09:50 GMT
Britain has always had a problem with illegal migration from the Continent - it's hardly going to stop now.  There's been a fair amount of travel in the opposite direction as well. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 11, 2023 20:14:54 GMT
Yes, this appears to be the problem and where the law needs re-writing. How can it be that someone can destroy their documents and refuse to tell the authorities where they are from and still be here. What can we do. You can't deport someone if you don't know where to deport them to. Other countries wont accept them. So what? Prison? Holding camps? How long for? This is another myth. We can and do remove asylum seekers whether they have their documents or not. Finding the nationality of a displaced person is not that difficult unless they do not speak, have no fingerprints, have never been photographed ... We use interpreters, which will indicate a nationality and regional accents to pinpoint their region of origin, body language experts are also used, skilled interviewers can quite easily discover the veracity of a claimants story. International agreements with other countries can be used to 'investigate' where that is possible, economic migrants usually come from poor but relatively safe states. To say there is nothing we can do is lazy. Our government has cut funding and almost refuses to assess claim which is the core root of our problem. Interesting. I would ask for evidence to back that up, but I doubt that would be easy to put together. |
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Post by sheepy on Aug 11, 2023 20:20:25 GMT
Andrew - it's all about legal loopholes and exploitation of a system designed in a bygone era. That alone highlights the unethical forces at work, which, as we can see, is also used against the people of our country. Clearly there's no reasoning with the Labour Left, which makes the situation a lot worse. You may think that, I think it's more about global migration. The problem with some of the posters on here is that they think it's a UK issue here, someone even said that we were a laughing stock because of our failure to deal with migrants, which just shows the ignorance of what is actually happening. I don't have an issue with the barge as such, as long as it meets safety standards and it is only used short term. I'm not a Labour supporter, and although every debate on here just descends into left v right, it's actually not a helpful way of looking at things. People are more 3 dimensional than just one or t'other, but most of the threads on here are just about putting people in boxes and then calling them names, rather than debating the actual points. On your point about bygone era, I somewhat take the point and have no objection to the legislation being amended, as long as we remain within our international obligations. It's not clear for me across all these multiple threads what changes people actually want to see that would actually make the process easier. George Orwell would call that double speak. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2023 5:51:38 GMT
That is a different topic. No it isn’t and you don’t want to answer. None who are in favour of the status quo are willing to answer a very simple and pertinent question. Do you not understand what an answer is or how a thread works? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2023 5:54:11 GMT
That is a different topic. Only 100,000 have made the trip across the channel in 5 years that's approx. 20,000 a year which is a very small number compared to the numbers 'allowed' in by 'legal' routes. That number does not represent the net number which is obviously lower. In terms of the demographic they represent (mainly young men) and the locations they are going to then they will cause a social imbalance even if they are granted refugee status and go to live within the communities they choose. With no solution on any horizon then the numbers will only keep rising and the demographic is unlikely to change. With no solution to the wars and starvation they are apparently fleeing from it is clear that there is a sustainability issue for cost and cultural and social consequences that the left just will not consider. So at least recognise that there is a potential problem we are currently storing up for the future and now is the time to deal with it not 1,2 or even 5 years time. Most of us have reached and passed our acceptable limits, is there a limit in your, and others, view? You are assuming the 'young men' and there is a perfectly reasonable reason for a lot of them being young men, are all criminals instead of genuine refugees. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2023 5:57:14 GMT
This is another myth. We can and do remove asylum seekers whether they have their documents or not. Finding the nationality of a displaced person is not that difficult unless they do not speak, have no fingerprints, have never been photographed ... We use interpreters, which will indicate a nationality and regional accents to pinpoint their region of origin, body language experts are also used, skilled interviewers can quite easily discover the veracity of a claimants story. International agreements with other countries can be used to 'investigate' where that is possible, economic migrants usually come from poor but relatively safe states. To say there is nothing we can do is lazy. Our government has cut funding and almost refuses to assess claim which is the core root of our problem. Interesting. I would ask for evidence to back that up, but I doubt that would be easy to put together. It's easy really. Police, intelligence services, international cooperation, crime databases, psychologists, interpreters.... These and many more services are in daily use in government. |
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Post by sheepy on Aug 12, 2023 6:28:56 GMT
Scuppered is the word you are looking for, there is a very nasty political entity in politics who happen to hate the British people and all those who stand up for them. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 12, 2023 6:29:59 GMT
Interesting. I would ask for evidence to back that up, but I doubt that would be easy to put together. It's easy really. Police, intelligence services, international cooperation, crime databases, psychologists, interpreters.... These and many more services are in daily use in government. The words are easy to write. I suspect the reality is much harder. Someone who refuses to give you any information other than they've escaped from war in North Sudan. I doubt the services you describe are that clever. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 12, 2023 6:36:00 GMT
Britain has always had a problem with illegal migration from the Continent - it's hardly going to stop now. Never on this scale. |
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