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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 25, 2023 5:51:30 GMT
Ok i’ve gone through three pages and i cannot see anything telated to the following, so here goes
As is common knowledge, labour party membership rose during Corbyn’s leadership campaign not least because people like me sought to join the party fir £3 to vote for him so as to ensure our grandchildren would never pay tax to a labour chancellor and their grandchildren probably would not either. Sadly i found out through underhand means all such applications in this constituency were being vetted by our waste of space blair babe MP’s unpaid interns and so my name never stood a chance. Maybe if i’d used my weksh alias …
The point is at that time the Labour Party Election Manifesto was not available on the official Labour Party website it appeared first on tbe momentum funded JC4PM website.
After his lacklustre performance and his replacement by self confessed zionist Starmer membership tanked.
The Momentum organisations own description of its demographics at the time pointed to a huge influx of young voters who were naturally attracted to the organisation not least because none had jobs and none had ever paid income tax. The other end of the demographic are the Zimmerframe Socialists who remember when the party was not led by an admirer of that her.
So if this is to be believed then one could be forgiven for thinking the older generation and their sixties and seventies socialism red in flag and picket line have already abandoned Starmer who becomes the leader of the middle aged Blairites.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 25, 2023 6:28:23 GMT
"Zimmerframe Socialists". Brilliant! I might have to steal that.
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Post by dodgydave on Jul 25, 2023 13:28:24 GMT
Labour does have an identity problem.
When they talk about the "working class" who exactly are they talking about? Most sensible people stopped identifying by class in the 1990s.
Labour need to get with the times, there is no "class war" anymore. They need to shift their language and make the case for Social Democracy, instead of relying on "Tories are evil" / "working class are victims" rhetoric.
I'm a Social Democrat at heart, yet I'm not poor, and I'm not a moron so I don't give myself a class label... who do I vote for?
Labour will win the next election purely because everybody is sick of the Tories. Personally, I think both Labour and the Tories are done. They are covering the political spectrum of at least 4 parties between them, the sooner they both break up, the better. Then again, look at how PR is crippling many European countries, with coalitions breaking down and a GE practically every year!
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 25, 2023 14:48:59 GMT
I think that sensibly we need PR. We can't go on with ever diminishing minority supported governments. Labour and the Tories are now hopelessly out of touch and no new party has a cat in Hell's chance under fptp.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 25, 2023 15:05:16 GMT
I think that sensibly we need PR. We can't go on with ever diminishing minority supported governments. Labour and the Tories are now hopelessly out of touch and no new party has a cat in Hell's chance under fptp. I understand why you say that, but I honestly believe PR would be a disaster for this country. PR produces weak coalition governments sometimes three or even four way coalitions who struggle to agree on anything which can lead to indecision constant compromise and legislative paralysis. FPTP may no be perfect, in fact is not perfect, but in my opinion it's preferable to PR. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 25, 2023 15:07:10 GMT
Labour does have an identity problem. When they talk about the "working class" who exactly are they talking about? Most sensible people stopped identifying by class in the 1990s. Labour need to get with the times, there is no "class war" anymore. They need to shift their language and make the case for Social Democracy, instead of relying on "Tories are evil" / "working class are victims" rhetoric. I'm a Social Democrat at heart, yet I'm not poor, and I'm not a moron so I don't give myself a class label... who do I vote for? Labour will win the next election purely because everybody is sick of the Tories. Personally, I think both Labour and the Tories are done. They are covering the political spectrum of at least 4 parties between them, the sooner they both break up, the better. Then again, look at how PR is crippling many European countries, with coalitions breaking down and a GE practically every year! Surely you must have noticed that the Labour mainstream doesn’t talk about class anymore. Labour politicians’ phrase is “working people”. Seems to me a better all-inclusive approach to a potentially wider audience… |
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Post by patman post on Jul 25, 2023 15:17:50 GMT
I think that sensibly we need PR. We can't go on with ever diminishing minority supported governments. Labour and the Tories are now hopelessly out of touch and no new party has a cat in Hell's chance under fptp. I understand why you say that, but I honestly believe PR would be a disaster for this country. PR produces weak coalition governments sometimes three or even four way coalitions who struggle to agree on anything which can lead to indecision constant compromise and legislative paralysis. FPTP may no be perfect, in fact is not perfect, but in my opinion it's preferable to PR. Probably the only thing I’ll agree with you on — though not necessarily for the same reasons. My objection to all types of PR systems I’ve seen proposed is that they don’t allow me to vote for a specific candidate I can research, and even question. Simply voting for a party which will then appoint people according to a list of people according to the number of votes the party gets at an election. I know local candidates are appointed by political parties under our current system, but I get a chance to check them out before I cast my vote… |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 25, 2023 15:27:35 GMT
Is a good point.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 25, 2023 16:50:16 GMT
Labour does have an identity problem. When they talk about the "working class" who exactly are they talking about? Most sensible people stopped identifying by class in the 1990s. Labour need to get with the times, there is no "class war" anymore. They need to shift their language and make the case for Social Democracy, instead of relying on "Tories are evil" / "working class are victims" rhetoric. I'm a Social Democrat at heart, yet I'm not poor, and I'm not a moron so I don't give myself a class label... who do I vote for? Labour will win the next election purely because everybody is sick of the Tories. Personally, I think both Labour and the Tories are done. They are covering the political spectrum of at least 4 parties between them, the sooner they both break up, the better. Then again, look at how PR is crippling many European countries, with coalitions breaking down and a GE practically every year!
Belgium actually went over a year without a government - they did OK, there was no noticeable difference. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 25, 2023 16:54:27 GMT
Labour does have an identity problem. When they talk about the "working class" who exactly are they talking about? Most sensible people stopped identifying by class in the 1990s. Labour need to get with the times, there is no "class war" anymore. They need to shift their language and make the case for Social Democracy, instead of relying on "Tories are evil" / "working class are victims" rhetoric. I'm a Social Democrat at heart, yet I'm not poor, and I'm not a moron so I don't give myself a class label... who do I vote for? Labour will win the next election purely because everybody is sick of the Tories. Personally, I think both Labour and the Tories are done. They are covering the political spectrum of at least 4 parties between them, the sooner they both break up, the better. Then again, look at how PR is crippling many European countries, with coalitions breaking down and a GE practically every year! Surely you must have noticed that the Labour mainstream doesn’t talk about class anymore. Labour politicians’ phrase is “working people”. Seems to me a better all-inclusive approach to a potentially wider audience… Thats even worse - its totally pointless as it includes the guy flipping burgers in McDonalds on minimum wage and someone like Denise Coates who is the boss of Bet365 - she was on a paltry £400 million in 2020. So who are Labour trying to represent? |
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Post by patman post on Jul 25, 2023 17:07:03 GMT
Surely you must have noticed that the Labour mainstream doesn’t talk about class anymore. Labour politicians’ phrase is “working people”. Seems to me a better all-inclusive approach to a potentially wider audience… Thats even worse - its totally pointless as it includes the guy flipping burgers in McDonalds on minimum wage and someone like Denise Coates who is the boss of Bet365 - she was on a paltry £400 million in 2020. So who are Labour trying to represent? Pehaps Labour are catholic, the Universal Party, and will represent anyone and everyone who sees anything to agree with in what Labour say and do and, maybe also, what Labour doesn't say and do... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 25, 2023 17:12:12 GMT
Thats even worse - its totally pointless as it includes the guy flipping burgers in McDonalds on minimum wage and someone like Denise Coates who is the boss of Bet365 - she was on a paltry £400 million in 2020. So who are Labour trying to represent? Pehaps Labour are catholic, the Universal Party, and will represent anyone and everyone who sees anything to agree with in what Labour say and do and, maybe also, what Labour doesn't say and do... Fair point - we already know that Starmer always agrees with the last person he spoke to.. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 25, 2023 17:15:39 GMT
Pehaps Labour are catholic, the Universal Party, and will represent anyone and everyone who sees anything to agree with in what Labour say and do and, maybe also, what Labour doesn't say and do... Fair point - we already know that Starmer always agrees with the last person he spoke to.. A sort of Boris Johnson, but without the engaging disregard for truth... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 25, 2023 17:39:53 GMT
Fair point - we already know that Starmer always agrees with the last person he spoke to.. A sort of Boris Johnson, but without the engaging disregard for truth... You think he told the truth to get elected Leader?..  |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 25, 2023 17:40:17 GMT
Pretty good point by Owen..
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