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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 24, 2023 8:50:05 GMT
Given that our most ardent Labourites appear to be well into advanced age?
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 9:03:16 GMT
If Labour voters are anything like the Labour voters on here they shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box, the crap they come out with on here is jaw dropping, and the excuses they make for Labour is even more jaw dropping, but the most worrying thing of all there are many more of them out there, that could help get Labour into power.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 9:09:26 GMT
If Labour voters are anything like the Labour voters on here they shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box, the crap they come out with on here is jaw dropping, and the excuses they make for Labour is even more jaw dropping, but the most worrying thing of all there are many more of them out there, that could help get Labour into power. I think new labour under starmer has the same problem new labour under milliband had regading voting base. Irvine welsh recently touched on starmers cognitive dissonance on that fact. Starmer is belived of the champagne socialist , the southern english middle class quinoa muncher. Not so much so by the old traditionalist labour left wing voters.
So while blair in the nineties could hold the old left wing vote , and go after the soft small c tory vote in the marginals , starmer like milliband , is finding that balancing act very difficult in modern politics.
I think the old labour voting base has long agao "died out " not becuase they have literally passed away , but becuase the old two party left right politics is passing away and the old traditional left have elsehwere to go.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 9:19:46 GMT
If Labour voters are anything like the Labour voters on here they shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box, the crap they come out with on here is jaw dropping, and the excuses they make for Labour is even more jaw dropping, but the most worrying thing of all there are many more of them out there, that could help get Labour into power. I think new labour under starmer has the same problem new labour under milliband had regading voting base. Irvine welsh recently touched on starmers cognitive dissonance on that fact. Starmer is belived of the champagne socialist , the southern english middle class quinoa muncher. Not so much so by the old traditionalist labour left wing voters.
So while blair in the nineties could hold the old left wing vote , and go after the soft small c tory vote in the marginals , starmer like milliband , is finding that balancing act very difficult in modern politics.
I think the old labour voting base has long agao "died out " not becuase they have literally passed away , but becuase the old two party left right politics is passing away and the old traditional left have elsehwere to go.
Labour under both Blair and Starmer attract voters with their anti-establishment sentiments, Starmer for one in the early days was anti-monarchy, Blair wanted to tax wealthy people and businesses to death, yet look at the pair of them, both knights of the realm 'Sir', Blair is a multimillionaire who does all he can to avoid paying his fair share of taxes, using all sorts of loopholes...
Pandora Papers: Tony and Cherie Blair avoided paying £312,000 in tax on London property by acquiring offshore firm Deal meant couple did not pay stamp duty on London townhouse bought in 2017 as an office for Ms Blair’s legal advisory firm
At least you know where you stand with the Tories, but Labour are dangerous, pretending to care about the poor and less well off, while feathering their own nests for the future.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 9:45:53 GMT
I think new labour under starmer has the same problem new labour under milliband had regading voting base. Irvine welsh recently touched on starmers cognitive dissonance on that fact. Starmer is belived of the champagne socialist , the southern english middle class quinoa muncher. Not so much so by the old traditionalist labour left wing voters.
So while blair in the nineties could hold the old left wing vote , and go after the soft small c tory vote in the marginals , starmer like milliband , is finding that balancing act very difficult in modern politics.
I think the old labour voting base has long agao "died out " not becuase they have literally passed away , but becuase the old two party left right politics is passing away and the old traditional left have elsehwere to go.
Labour under both Blair and Starmer attract voters with their anti-establishment sentiments, Starmer for one in the early days was anti-monarchy, Blair wanted to tax wealthy people and businesses to death, yet look at the pair of them, both knights of the realm 'Sir', Blair is a multimillionaire who does all he can to avoid paying his fair share of taxes, using all sorts of loopholes...
Pandora Papers: Tony and Cherie Blair avoided paying £312,000 in tax on London property by acquiring offshore firm Deal meant couple did not pay stamp duty on London townhouse bought in 2017 as an office for Ms Blair’s legal advisory firm
At least you know where you stand with the Tories, but Labour are dangerous, pretending to care about the poor and less well off, while feathering their own nests for the future.
or as many point out ,if you are naturally a tory voter and support centre right policy , why vote new labour when you can have the real thing?
i agree with your post though. Politics has moved on now from the bad old days of the left having no where but the red tories to go to.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 9:49:37 GMT
If Labour voters are anything like the Labour voters on here they shouldn't be allowed near a ballot box, the crap they come out with on here is jaw dropping, and the excuses they make for Labour is even more jaw dropping, but the most worrying thing of all there are many more of them out there, that could help get Labour into power. What crap? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 10:04:04 GMT
Labour under both Blair and Starmer attract voters with their anti-establishment sentiments, Starmer for one in the early days was anti-monarchy, Blair wanted to tax wealthy people and businesses to death, yet look at the pair of them, both knights of the realm 'Sir', Blair is a multimillionaire who does all he can to avoid paying his fair share of taxes, using all sorts of loopholes...
Pandora Papers: Tony and Cherie Blair avoided paying £312,000 in tax on London property by acquiring offshore firm Deal meant couple did not pay stamp duty on London townhouse bought in 2017 as an office for Ms Blair’s legal advisory firm
At least you know where you stand with the Tories, but Labour are dangerous, pretending to care about the poor and less well off, while feathering their own nests for the future.
or as many point out ,if you are naturally a tory voter and support centre right policy , why vote new labour when you can have the real thing?
i agree with your post though. Politics has moved on now from the bad old days of the left having no where but the red tories to go to.
Labour was the party of the poor, the Tories the party that looked out for the wealthy, there's nothing between them now, Labour have nothing to offer, Starmer has ruled out free school meals for every child, he's now ruled out abolishing the two child benefit cap, (which I agree with him), voters are realising that Labour is no longer the party of the poor.
We have the Tories who have gone center swinging to left, so we actually don't have a party to the right, the Tories have gone all Woke, the fact we have to put up with JSO, the Banks picking and choosing their customers, allowing people to be kicked out of (luxury) hotels to house illegal migrants, instead of putting them in the slums of the UK, to send the message loud and clear 'you get no special treatment here', our own homeless on the streets or dumped in shabby hostels, the Tories need a good swift kick up the arse as well.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 10:12:47 GMT
or as many point out ,if you are naturally a tory voter and support centre right policy , why vote new labour when you can have the real thing?
i agree with your post though. Politics has moved on now from the bad old days of the left having no where but the red tories to go to.
Labour was the party of the poor, the Tories the party that looked out for the wealthy, there's nothing between them now, Labour have nothing to offer, Starmer has ruled out free school meals for every child, he's now ruled out abolishing the two child benefit cap, (which I agree with him), voters are realising that Labour is no longer the party of the poor.
We have the Tories who have gone center swinging to left, so we actually don't have a party to the right, the Tories have gone all Woke, the fact we have to put up with JSO, the Banks picking and choosing their customers, allowing people to be kicked out of (luxury) hotels to house illegal migrants, instead of putting them in the slums of the UK, to send the message loud and clear 'you get no special treatment here', our own homeless on the streets or dumped in shabby hostels, the Tories need a good swift kick up the arse as well.
cant disagree.
new labours whole ethos relys on keeping the left wing working class , wether its inner london , the working class brexiters of the red wall , or scottish independence supporters on red clydeside.
The world has changed. its no longer 1970 , or 1990. Many issues , elephants in the room for both labour and tory , are eating into both voting bases. Hence why the next westmsinter election is looking like a dogs breakfast.
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 24, 2023 11:08:21 GMT
Given that our most ardent Labourites appear to be well into advanced age? I don't think so. I think Labour are quite adept at playing identity politics and get kids hooked when they're young - see Keir Mather, and the like who have been smothered by cultural marxism at a very young age. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 11:13:40 GMT
Given that our most ardent Labourites appear to be well into advanced age? I don't think so. I think Labour are quite adept at playing identity politics and get kids hooked when they're young - see Keir Mather, and the like who have been smothered by cultural marxism at a very young age. I thought i read keir mather worked formerly for a tory mp , and is simply regarded as some carpet bagging chancer typical of the red tories rather than one of the old principled lefties ?
I think you are exaggerating a tenny weeny wee bit buccy dont you? If mather is a cultural marxist , then the term has lost all meaning.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 11:22:39 GMT
Given that our most ardent Labourites appear to be well into advanced age? I don't think so. I think Labour are quite adept at playing identity politics and get kids hooked when they're young - see Keir Mather, and the like who have been smothered by cultural marxism at a very young age. The only reason Labour is gaining any momentum is by dirty tricks.
Both the Snivel Service and the public sector are being egged on by the lefty Unions, the teachers NHS are also jumping on the lefty bandwagon, not to mention the banks are trying to cancel everyone who isn't a lefty, if it was left to Starmer Labour may as well throw in the towel now, they wouldn't stand a hope in hells chance of winning the next GE.
The lefties are becoming a powerful aggressive movement, edging to far-left, it's turning towards dangerous politics, when the likes of banks are playing politics it's time to overhaul the establishment, before we end up like Russia.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 11:30:35 GMT
I don't think so. I think Labour are quite adept at playing identity politics and get kids hooked when they're young - see Keir Mather, and the like who have been smothered by cultural marxism at a very young age. The only reason Labour is gaining any momentum is by dirty tricks.
i hope i dont sound pedantic , but i dont think labour are gaining momentum fair. They appear to have lost what little momentum they had.
The recent by elections disaster for starmer is case in point. His approval ratings last i looked were down , with u turn after u turn taking its toll on what little credibility he had.
Various polling experts and commentators , many who are in no way supporters of the conservatives , are pointing out repeatedly that despite what the polls may show currently , we have a long way to go and labours polling lead looks incredibly soft and shallow.
i dont believe the majority are fooled by starmer. More they are pissed off with tory and snp , and as i keep saying it will be interesting to see how the next election goes.Im 100 % confident labour are definetly NOT gaining voters supremely confident in their policy and potential ability to govern.
More at the minute the other parties voters are disillusioned , and we are wondering where they will cast their vote , or wether they will stay at home apathetic.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 11:38:07 GMT
The only reason Labour is gaining any momentum is by dirty tricks.
i hope i dont sound pedantic , but i dont think labour are gaining momentum fair. They appear to have lost what little momentum they had.
The recent by elections disaster for starmer is case in point. His approval ratings last i looked were down , with u turn after u turn taking its toll on what little credibility he had.
Various polling experts and commentators , many who are in no way supporters of the conservatives , are pointing out repeatedly that despite what the polls may show currently , we have a long way to go and labours polling lead looks incredibly soft and shallow.
i dont believe the majority are fooled by starmer. More they are pissed off with tory and snp , and as i keep saying it will be interesting to see how the next election goes.Im 100 % confident labour are definetly NOT gaining voters supremely confident in their policy and potential ability to govern.
More at the minute the other parties voters are disillusioned , and we are wondering where they will cast their vote , or wether they will stay at home apathetic.
If we are to believe the polls Labour appear to have a 17 point lead over the Tories.
Labour boasts commanding 17-point opinion poll lead over Tories
Keir Starmer’s approval ratings suffer but his party remains far ahead of Conservatives as Westminster summer recess begins
If this is true the only way they have gained that lead is by the dirty tricks politics, the Unions and other organizations are plugging Labour, they are desperate for Labour to get into power so they can play even more dirty, as I said they know Starmer is a dead loss so they are doing the dirty work to get him into power, but once they are in Starmer wont last a year, they'll kick him out and put a Corbynite to replace him, which would include Rayner, Nandy and a few others, you can tell the friction between Starmer and Rayner, she can't wait to get shut of him.
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Post by thomas on Jul 24, 2023 11:46:26 GMT
i hope i dont sound pedantic , but i dont think labour are gaining momentum fair. They appear to have lost what little momentum they had.
The recent by elections disaster for starmer is case in point. His approval ratings last i looked were down , with u turn after u turn taking its toll on what little credibility he had.
Various polling experts and commentators , many who are in no way supporters of the conservatives , are pointing out repeatedly that despite what the polls may show currently , we have a long way to go and labours polling lead looks incredibly soft and shallow.
i dont believe the majority are fooled by starmer. More they are pissed off with tory and snp , and as i keep saying it will be interesting to see how the next election goes.Im 100 % confident labour are definetly NOT gaining voters supremely confident in their policy and potential ability to govern.
More at the minute the other parties voters are disillusioned , and we are wondering where they will cast their vote , or wether they will stay at home apathetic.
If this is true the only way they have gained that lead is by the dirty tricks politics, the Unions and other organizations are plugging Labour, they are desperate for Labour to get into power so they can play even more dirty, as I said they know Starmer is a dead loss so they are doing the dirty work to get him into power, but once they are in Starmer wont last a year, they'll kick him out and put a Corbynite to replace him, which would include Rayner, Nandy and a few others, you can tell the friction between Starmer and Rayner, she can't wait to get shut of him.
labours dirty tricks are well known . What im saying though is two things.
One is that any momentum they may have had has stalled. Voters arent sure on them despite the polls
Second is that the snp , and tory governments failings ,rather than some sort of new labour dirty trick campaign , is what is hampering the governing parties in scotland and england rather than the threat of an upcoming party that has something new and fresh to offer the electorate.
Im not convinced starmer is going to win the next election.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 24, 2023 11:59:33 GMT
If this is true the only way they have gained that lead is by the dirty tricks politics, the Unions and other organizations are plugging Labour, they are desperate for Labour to get into power so they can play even more dirty, as I said they know Starmer is a dead loss so they are doing the dirty work to get him into power, but once they are in Starmer wont last a year, they'll kick him out and put a Corbynite to replace him, which would include Rayner, Nandy and a few others, you can tell the friction between Starmer and Rayner, she can't wait to get shut of him.
labours dirty tricks are well known . What im saying though is two things.
One is that any momentum they may have had has stalled. Voters arent sure on them despite the polls
Second is that the snp , and tory governments failings ,rather than some sort of new labour dirty trick campaign , is what is hampering the governing parties in scotland and england rather than the threat of an upcoming party that has something new and fresh to offer the electorate.
Im not convinced starmer is going to win the next election.
If the Tories can get their act together Labour wont win the next GE, but they have to start now.
Now all this Johnson partygate nonsense is hopefully over they can concentrate on what really matters to people, Labour/Starmer spent every hour of everyday on their partygate crusade against Johnson, in the hopes it would bring down the Tory government.
It hasn't worked so now it's back to the drawing board for them, Labour have no policies, no plans, and a deadpan leader, they know the only way they can win wont be because they are good, but the Tories are performing bad, and Labour will capitalise on every bad move the Tories make, so let's start hoping the Tories pull themselves together and deliver what the people want.
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