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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2023 7:15:41 GMT
But it's true, the more Starmer says the more obvious it becomes that a centrist Labour government will be much the same as a centrist Tory government. Starmer is desperate to rid Labour of the reputation of being an economy wrecking high borrowing party, and that will massively reduce his ability to announce big spending plans. Just yesterday Harman was at pains to point out that Starmer backtracked on his £28 billion a year 'green revolution' because he cant make spending promises that cant be funded. Maybe the electorate won’t mind more centrism if it’s separated from the blatant cronyism and downright inability displayed by most of the current crop of Tories… You will I'm sure be aware that one of the biggest criticisms of Starmer is that no one knows what he stands for, I listened to someone yesterday who said Starmer is glued to the fence. A few days ago he agreed with an audience who wanted to get rid of Khans Ulez zone, a few hours later on LBC he agreed with Khans Ulez zone, he is terrified to commit in case it affects the polls. What is the difference between Starmer and Sunak? They're both pro EU, pro WEF liberal centrists. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 20, 2023 7:29:15 GMT
They are both the same 'personality type'
Managerial - compliant. Both clipped and schooled heavily in the university of grinning. All these useless Blair-like mannequins need to be tipped out as a matter of urgency
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Post by Vinny on Jul 20, 2023 7:29:27 GMT
Sunak at least was part of Vote Leave in 2016. Starmer was part of BSE.
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Post by Orac on Jul 20, 2023 7:48:49 GMT
On a scale of to ten how commuted do you imagine Sunak is to Brexit? On scale of 1 to 10 how committed is he to any substantial political stance? 3? Does he even intellectually understand what UK conservatism is? Since Blair we have become accustomed to politicians who don't seem to be all that interested in politics - or are only interested in small politics - ie 'office politics'
By the same mechanism that allowed hollyweird to fill with people who aren't remotely interested in making good films, our political caste has filled with people who would be better suited to some other pursuit - perhaps television or sales. These people are blocking up a proper discussion.
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Post by wapentake on Jul 20, 2023 7:50:25 GMT
Sunak at least was part of Vote Leave in 2016. Starmer was part of BSE.Starmer has mad cow disease? Explains a lot  |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 20, 2023 7:50:58 GMT
Maybe the electorate won’t mind more centrism if it’s separated from the blatant cronyism and downright inability displayed by most of the current crop of Tories… You will I'm sure be aware that one of the biggest criticisms of Starmer is that no one knows what he stands for, I listened to someone yesterday who said Starmer is glued to the fence. A few days ago he agreed with an audience who wanted to get rid of Khans Ulez zone, a few hours later on LBC he agreed with Khans Ulez zone, he is terrified to commit in case it affects the polls. What is the difference between Starmer and Sunak? They're both pro EU, pro WEF liberal centrists. For a man who votes Conservative you should be happy, it doesn't matter who you vote for you get the government. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Jul 20, 2023 8:18:26 GMT
Orac But ....but ...but ...Rishi's substantial political stance is to 'Beat Starmer's Labour!', and making him Party Leader, and thereby Prime Minister, was a sure-fire way to 'Keep Brexit Safe'.... even smarmy Liam Fox endorsed Little Richy for the top job. Are you suggesting the messages on those placards weren't worth the cardboard they were written on ?   |
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Post by Hutchyns on Jul 20, 2023 8:30:23 GMT
Red Rackham That's right, and that same someone advised Sir Keir to unglue himself from that fence. For anyone who'd like to hear those words being uttered, there's a short video clip available at this link: Unglue Sir Keir |
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Post by Orac on Jul 20, 2023 8:33:43 GMT
Stunning and brave.
He really got to the heart of the matter
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Post by Orac on Jul 20, 2023 8:53:28 GMT
Orac But ....but ...but ...Rishi's substantial political stance is to 'Beat Starmer's Labour!', and making him Party Leader, and thereby Prime Minister, was a sure-fire way to 'Keep Brexit Safe'.... even smarmy Liam Fox endorsed Little Richy for the top job. Are you suggesting the messages on those placards weren't worth the cardboard they were written on ? I have to admit I remain un-moved. Perhaps my heart is made of a particularly chilled steel. I think it's best to visualise Sunak as a power seeking AI who employs a pastiche of Blair's body language and linguistic ticks. Similar for Starmer. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 20, 2023 9:06:33 GMT
There is talk of Liam Fox being brought back into cabinet at the impending reshuffle. Have to say I didnt realise he was still going. Does feel they are getting desperate.
We are stuck in a rut at the moment. Everyone knows there is an election round the corner, it looks highly likely that Labour will win. Do wonder if the Tories will give up hoping for something to turn up and go to the polls early - say May to get it over with. Obviously the sooner the next election is held, the sooner the one after that is held.
Does feel like the Tories need to go away and decide what they want to be. Do they see their future as being centre right One Nation (maybe lead by Mordaunt or Hunt or do they want to go full Corbyn and go to their more extreme Trussian wing (Braverrman or more credibly Cleverly) or do they pursue the current path of desperately trying to pretend the cataclysmic split doesnt exist (Mercer?).
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Post by Hutchyns on Jul 20, 2023 9:18:44 GMT
dappy
As Fox is a real Doctor, he'd be a lot more use helping out the NHS that faffing around among Rishi's collection of clowns in Cabinet. Many Tory MP's have concluded it's a time to head for the exits, and not to associate yourself even more closely with Rishi.
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Post by Orac on Jul 20, 2023 10:28:14 GMT
Does feel like the Tories need to go away and decide what they want to be. Do they see their future as being centre right One Nation (maybe lead by Mordaunt or Hunt or do they want to go full Corbyn and go to their more extreme Trussian wing (Braverrman or more credibly Cleverly) or do they pursue the current path of desperately trying to pretend the cataclysmic split doesnt exist (Mercer?). Depending on what dimension you are tracking here, you could well be describing positions that are just centre-mainstream in terms of public opinion, as extremist. This propaganda technique has been so over-used by the left recently, it no longer has much of an effect. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2023 11:09:19 GMT
You will I'm sure be aware that one of the biggest criticisms of Starmer is that no one knows what he stands for, I listened to someone yesterday who said Starmer is glued to the fence. A few days ago he agreed with an audience who wanted to get rid of Khans Ulez zone, a few hours later on LBC he agreed with Khans Ulez zone, he is terrified to commit in case it affects the polls. What is the difference between Starmer and Sunak? They're both pro EU, pro WEF liberal centrists. For a man who votes Conservative you should be happy, it doesn't matter who you vote for you get the government. I vote Conservative in the vain hope we get a Conservative government however, that looks increasingly unlikely so Mrs R and I will probably vote Reform next time. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 20, 2023 11:12:56 GMT
Does Mrs R get to decide for herself who she votes for?
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