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Post by wapentake on Jul 11, 2023 19:37:05 GMT
Don’t be silly,plebs won’t be needed or very few AI will be there to serve the elite and protect them until maybe AI no longer wants to. Right. People will just go along with that, you think? Karl Marx addressed this a long time ago. He noted an internal conflict in capitalism. It seeks out the cheapest means of production, often employing machines to do the work previously done by people. The result is increased unemployment, fewer people who can afford to buy the products produced by the machines. The result, he predicted, is that capitalism will eventually die. The point will be reached where the people simply take control of the machines and use them to do their work for them. He said that communism would only work where there is a strong industrial economy and a long established tradition of democracy.* I suppose it is all guesswork at this point. Much will depend on whether the guesser is an optimist or a pessimist. The pessimist, of which you appear to be one, predicts a future where machines do the bidding of an elite while the people starve, having no function whatsoever, not even as consumers of the products produced by machines. The optimist forecasts something akin to Marx's utopia, where most of the work is done by machines, while everyone works only a few days a week maintaining and developing those machines. I don't suppose it will be either. But I imagine it will be closer to the latter than the former. *Note that none of those conditions existed in any country where so-called communism was said to have been established. I’d be more than happy to be proved wrong,where I see this going though is the first to be thrown to the wolves will be those who will be in the mass movement of people (we ain’t seen nothing yet) then the plebs in the developed world. Some will be useful for a time but those who remain won’t be through any benevolence,it all sounds dystopian but that’s how I see it playing out. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 20:20:50 GMT
Given that a workhouse would actually produce stuff to be sold, the idea is for it to self fund once operational. Assuming the government is competent enough to create profitable work all year round (so fruit picking is out) in areas where private sector jobs won't be harmed, what happens when no one turns up the day after pay day because they are getting pissed or taking smack? The workhouse would have to go hand in hand with other programmes. Those in it, would have rehab available to them. And the private sector would be able to buy from it. Why would fruit picking be out? Simply repurpose seasonal workers into other careers throughout the winter. There are many companies who have in recent years used underpaid Eastern Europeans. Get the workhouse staff into those jobs. Use a minibus to take them to work sites if necessary. You can treat the place like another agency and contract supplying staff to the private sector. When one bit of seasonal work dries up, another starts. There are ways to do it. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 11, 2023 21:18:26 GMT
The thing is my house ironically is itself becoming a workhouse. I've kind of built an electronics lab in it and I'm thinking of ways to improve it cos I've got all these great ideas and it is fun. A house located where I am is ideal for working in because it is quiet and comfortable. System offices are so plain and such foreign environments to someone like me. I've no idea how people work in them. I look forward to seeing your first invention Baron. I can say, I new that guy.  I might have a crack at building a fully digital GaNFET amplifier. The thing is I've already got a couple of other things half finished so it is finding the time. I needed to get all the decorating out of the way first as that is a generator of chaos. Now it is all tidy. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 12, 2023 12:21:19 GMT
What would you Reimploy to produce stuff? Your quote shows that it is Vinny's idea rather than mine. I'm just pointing out that we had something similar previously, which as noted wasn't really that successful. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 12, 2023 12:32:28 GMT
The thing is my house ironically is itself becoming a workhouse. I've kind of built an electronics lab in it and I'm thinking of ways to improve it cos I've got all these great ideas and it is fun. A house located where I am is ideal for working in because it is quiet and comfortable. System offices are so plain and such foreign environments to someone like me. I've no idea how people work in them. I look forward to seeing your first invention Baron. I can say, I new that guy. Is his initial post still online somewhere...? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 12, 2023 12:36:01 GMT
I look forward to seeing your first invention Baron. I can say, I new that guy. Is his initial post still online somewhere...? Let us know what you do which is so superior to the rest of us lot. |
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Post by patman post on Jul 12, 2023 12:43:43 GMT
Given that a workhouse would actually produce stuff to be sold, the idea is for it to self fund once operational. You mean like Remploy? Remploy's heart was originally in the right place. Unfortunately, such schemes rarely have good management — you just have to look at the balance sheets of many charities to see that.
As an aside — there are more than 400 communes in the UK. Not sure what the communities get from them, but residents must be happy or they'd not thrive, and it "gets them off the streets". Perhaps — if it's not the kiss of death — the state could be persuaded to somehow encourage self-sufficiency in its various guises...
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Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 12:53:57 GMT
Badly managed maybe, but Remploy was a great idea.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 12, 2023 13:01:04 GMT
Badly managed maybe, but Remploy was a great idea. it was, but sadly the finances were pillaged, at least locally, and it sank … |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jul 12, 2023 13:33:58 GMT
Badly managed maybe, but Remploy was a great idea. What makes you think government run ''workhouses'' are going to be better managed? I suspect money spent on job creation schemes and rehab' centres would be more productive. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 12, 2023 14:31:29 GMT
Badly managed maybe, but Remploy was a great idea. What makes you think government run ''workhouses'' are going to be better managed? I suspect money spent on job creation schemes and rehab' centres would be more productive. In a capitalist society it is purely the consumer who creates jobs. Say matey down the road runs a business. You look in the window and think I like that. I like that so much that I'm going to buy one. Once you do that you have created a little bit of a job. So just what has that got to do with Governor Bigwig in his mansion up the road who calls himself the government? It is exactly why governments hate capitalists. You see you really don't need the middle man to tell you all what to do. You will buy what you want to buy!!!
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Post by Vinny on Jul 12, 2023 14:40:53 GMT
Badly managed maybe, but Remploy was a great idea. What makes you think government run ''workhouses'' are going to be better managed? I suspect money spent on job creation schemes and rehab' centres would be more productive. Workhouses are a job creation scheme. They're also a roof over people's heads. They're a source of food. They're a source of warmth and company. A place where people can meet, be safe and socialise. Not every homeless person is an addict. Those who are able bodied, deserve a chance to get back on their feet. A place where they can live, and either work, or go to and from work, it's vital. Nobody should be homeless in our day and age, it's the 21st century, not the 18th century. Even in the 19th century things were done about homelessness. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 12, 2023 14:47:11 GMT
What makes you think government run ''workhouses'' are going to be better managed? I suspect money spent on job creation schemes and rehab' centres would be more productive. Workhouses are a job creation scheme. They're also a roof over people's heads. They're a source of food. They're a source of warmth and company. A place where people can meet, be safe and socialise. Not every homeless person is an addict. Those who are able bodied, deserve a chance to get back on their feet. A place where they can live, and either work, or go to and from work, it's vital. Nobody should be homeless in our day and age, it's the 21st century, not the 18th century. Even in the 19th century things were done about homelessness. In the 19th century you did not need a fucking CV to shovel shit. You just knocked on the factory door and asked if they have any work. Jobs are all administrated by these shitty agencies. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 12, 2023 16:33:24 GMT
What would you Reimploy to produce stuff hash? I know that reading posts isn't your strong point, but even your quote shows that it is Vinny's idea rather than mine. I'm just pointing out that we had something similar previously, which as noted wasn't really that successful.How are you measuring success? - I seem to remember that Remploy was pretty good at giving the disabled a job and thus contributing to society and improving their mental wellbeing. The factories closed because they were not getting enough orders, but as they were not originally designed as a commercial operation that should not have mattered - Peter Hain who was instrumental in closing them down has a lot to answer for. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 12, 2023 16:58:12 GMT
I look forward to seeing your first invention Baron. I can say, I new that guy. Is his initial post still online somewhere...? Possibly. |
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