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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:34:54 GMT
Early capitalism was every bit as bad as early communism. But that's a subject for another thread. Good thing early Communism always implodes before it gets even worse then . And even better that capitalism is becoming increasingly socialist. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 11, 2023 13:35:00 GMT
I think Vinny's proposal, semantics aside, is a very humane approach to the homeless problem. The government is currently busy in re-purposing a number of MoD facilities and other public assets into workhouse-like accommodation (without the unpaid work element). Only problem it's all for the benefit of homeless foreigners not the domestic homeless.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 11, 2023 13:36:41 GMT
What you are describing is not a workhouse as the term is understood. It is a hostel which would in addition provide all those things which would clearly be better than being homeless, but it would cost a lot of money for that very reason. I would tend to suggest that building sufficient social housing might be the cheaper option in the long run. There are also the laws of unintended consequences. For example, what work would be done in those hostels, and whose jobs would they be replacing at taxpayer expense? Completely agree. Vinny has completely confused the issue with the word Workhouse. What he is suggesting bears no resemblance to one. Of course it is a workhouse, if you stay there you work. The choice of course is you can leave. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 11, 2023 13:37:07 GMT
The Soviet Union wants a quiet word with you about that statement. Early capitalism was every bit as bad as early communism. But that's a subject for another thread. That's very foggy thinking. 'Early capitalism' and 'early communism' are the same thing. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 11, 2023 13:37:57 GMT
Good thing early Communism always implodes before it gets even worse then . Even better, it's good that capitalism is becoming increasingly socialist. Nah. Capitalism is evolving but not into socialism. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:38:18 GMT
Early capitalism was every bit as bad as early communism. But that's a subject for another thread. That's very foggy thinking. 'Early capitalism' and 'early communism' are the same thing. Talking of foggy thinking ... |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 13:38:32 GMT
Which is preferable as an answer to homelessness? A modern workhouse, with modern work, modern pay, modern accommodation, modern living standards and skills training, or a shop doorway a sleeping bag and the risk of death? Funny how lefties balk at ideas that would save the homeless from death. What you are describing is not a workhouse as the term is understood. It is a hostel which would in addition provide all those things which would clearly be better than being homeless, but it would cost a lot of money for that very reason. I would tend to suggest that building sufficient social housing might be the cheaper option in the long run. There are also the laws of unintended consequences. For example, what work would be done in those hostels, and whose jobs would they be replacing at taxpayer expense? Social housing without work, is underproductive. And what work could be done? As an example, they could make flat pack furniture and sell it to companies like Ikea. And now we're out of the EU, we could force companies like Ikea to contribute designs to and purchase from the workhouses. Workhouses could be attached to farms. They could pick fruit / veg. There's a lot of possibilities. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:39:19 GMT
Even better, it's good that capitalism is becoming increasingly socialist. Nah. Capitalism is evolving but not into socialism. Ah, there hasn't been a trend towards increased workers' rights, tenant security, etc., then. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 11, 2023 13:41:35 GMT
Completely agree. Vinny has completely confused the issue with the word Workhouse. What he is suggesting bears no resemblance to one. Of course it is a workhouse, if you stay there you work. The choice of course is you can leave. It would provide pay, the means to save, and the means to build up funds to own a house of their own. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:43:19 GMT
There's a lot of possibilities. Yes. And the workhouses could be economically built with Lego and straw. If anyone else mooted this idea, it would have been dismissed as a prank. We know you're serious because of your previous suggestion to solve the migration problem by parachuting refugees into Somalia. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 11, 2023 13:46:23 GMT
Nah. Capitalism is evolving but not into socialism. Ah, there hasn't been a trend towards increased workers' rights, tenant security, etc., then. They were part of the feudal system too. Was the feudal system socialist ? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 11, 2023 13:47:11 GMT
Why? I've worked for my entire adult life, mostly as a higher rate taxpayer, never claimed benefits and never a day out of work.
How about you?
Well thats because you were in a secure taxpayer funded civil service job, your wages paid by the rest of us for pushing a pen around paper in some office and imagining yourself to be a hard worker. No chance of your employer going bust and you suddenly being laid off at short notice. You have been one of the feather bedded ones. LOL! If you were privy to my employment record you'd know that I've been self-employed, employed in the private sector and employed in the public sector and sometimes in more than one at a time. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jul 11, 2023 13:48:46 GMT
Ah, there hasn't been a trend towards increased workers' rights, tenant security, etc., then. They were part of the feudal system too. Was the feudal system socialist ? No, but it is a demonstration of the dialectic we previously discussed at length. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2023 13:52:19 GMT
What you are describing is not a workhouse as the term is understood. It is a hostel which would in addition provide all those things which would clearly be better than being homeless, but it would cost a lot of money for that very reason. I would tend to suggest that building sufficient social housing might be the cheaper option in the long run. There are also the laws of unintended consequences. For example, what work would be done in those hostels, and whose jobs would they be replacing at taxpayer expense? Social housing without work, is underproductive. And what work could be done? As an example, they could make flat pack furniture and sell it to companies like Ikea. And now we're out of the EU, we could force companies like Ikea to contribute designs to and purchase from the workhouses. Workhouses could be attached to farms. They could pick fruit / veg. There's a lot of possibilities. Inevitably that takes work from others who will thus end up being in the shite themselves. It would also cost an absolute fortune. And involve moving people away from their social support networks. There are structural reasons why people cannot take work on fruit picking farms which I have addressed at length in other threads and which would be a diversion here. But essentially if you make such work a viable option for people you wouldnt need to build on site prison hostels. And forcing companies to cooperate against their will is a sure fire way to drive them out of the country. Your idea combines the draconian with the ill thought out. It would do far more harm than good, but I guess that this does not matter all that much to those whose emotional need to express their malice is more important to them than actually making things better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2023 13:53:26 GMT
Of course it is a workhouse, if you stay there you work. The choice of course is you can leave. It would provide pay, the means to save, and the means to build up funds to own a house of their own. And it would cost an absolute fortune. |
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